SA Dienstdoch Late War Maker Mark Original/Fake Opinions
Hi to everybody on board, been doing a little vendor surfing this morning and came across this dagger. Up front, not my area of collection, but still find it interesting. This particular dagger has a strange looking maker mark. To me it looks like someone did it with a engraving tool, not factory etched. Vendor claiming mint -. Are my assumptions correct
John
So what or who are we attacking here..the dagger or Tom Wittmann / Vendor ?
I see nothing strange about the RZM logo or its application.
If this is not your area of collecting so a question ... how would you know if the RZM number is a fake application?
Support your claims and find other fake applied comparative examples of the same number.
If its been messed with it,...then it has to be proven.
Last edited by Larry C; 06-26-2020 at 02:05 PM.
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hi Larry, not picking on either, just trying to a gain a little knowledge. I stand corrected on the dagger, maker mark is good as you say. I should have done more homework, finding out nothing is standard.
John
Likewise, because it looks etched - in the image posted I could not see any discernible evidence of an engraving tool being used to make the TM. But I did think that the blade also did not not look quite right with something of a "washed out" look that was very likely because of the lighting/imaging (?). And in this case I was able to find more pictures of the dagger that for me confirmed that the lighting is/was a factor. (PS: Of course the human eye is a much better judge of what is actually there which is why accurate imaging is such an important factor in making online assessments.) Best Regards, Fred
Hi Fred, I agree that incorrect lighting is a big problem, creating questions to authenticity of the item. My question to all is, if someone has been in this business for decades should not his pictures be spot on. Owning only one of these definitely limits my knowledge. I guess maybe I am a little to hard on some of the big online vendors but not all. Here is the same dagger from another vendor who I have no problems with. I feel and could be wrong poor pictures are done for a reason.
Hope Everyone is having a great Sunday
John
Having a great Sunday today
Templates change and was not just one for the duration of the period and also depending if Gustav Spitzer done it in house or was subcontracted out ..thats something that needs to be determined.
Im not protecting Wittmann nor am I protecting this dagger...just the facts that we need to see the dagger for what it is first.
Doesnt matter whos selling it ..the point is the authenticity and whos hands were involved with the template application.
Paper templates do break down after awhile.
There are so many varied minute logo differences and most collectors ..if its not a text book example ..unlike Eickhorn and Ernst Pack had many logos and each of those logos had minute differences in template changes and break downs.
One thing is certain ....no matter what one persons thoughts about Wittmann as of lately as seen on some other threads and forums of daggers and authenticity..the goal here is to disseminate the researched findings ..trashing a dealer as a hidden thread topic wont happen here.
Enough warning has been established as seen here and on the WAF not to shop there. One should do their homework first and decide whether or not to shop at that store.
To each person or merchant is their own responsibility to stand by their wares or actions.
These threads after a research and discussion in fact finding will be the " Nail in the coffin " to those who try to promulgate something that never was or has been altered.
These forums exist to protect the collector..and also support the integrity of the seller.
Their wares lay silently on their shelves without a voice ...once made public ..those items are non stop talking.
I try to keep all threads focused mainly on the artifact first..the truth will do the rest of the leg work.
Best Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hi Larry, all that you are saying is excellent advice to all collectors, from the beginners to some of the top vendors. I am adjusting my opinion on the RZM standards as a whole. I originally thought that the stamp meant items had to meet the strict standards and guidelines of the TR. Basically making items standard and pretty much exact copies of each other. Making daggers maker marks similar looking by maker. This is not true, I am finding out. I try and buy things that match up to previous deemed know examples that are authentic. I came across this sticky SA Daggers on this board. Looking up the maker we have been discussing I found this picture. The picture is from a link Adrian Stevenson set up. There are differences, the number 7 is totally different. Very confusing to a novice collector.
I see that you are from PA. Wondering if you even go to the Fork of Delaware gun show. I know most of the vendors, mostly good people. I always ask if the Big W has made a visit. The answer is always he comes on Fridays never on Sat or Sun. His side kick (guy with a pony tail) is there though. I have been trying to figure out why he never has a table, he has more than enough low end items to sell.
Maybe it is the returns that he would be receiving in person are bad for the image. All just my opinion.
John
Similar Threads
Posting Permissions
.
Bookmarks