German captured bayonets

[Sleepwalker]

Obviously there are differences between rifle and bayonet production which cannot be solved by this book.
The production of bayonets cannot be seen in parallel with the ordering of rifles.

I orientate myself here only according to the German sources that name this company as a part of "Waffenwerke Brünn AG". But I think you know exactly that the work is meant here. It is the "Waffenwerke Brünn II" in Waag Bistritz.
Complete bayonets were also not always ordered or delivered, but only bayonets and only scabbards.




As evidenced by original pieces, see article above, there are Vz.24 scabbards with CSZ AND WaA63 approval. There is also a Vz.24 bayonette (unfortunately I don't have one in my collection yet), which have the old CSR stamps AND the WaA63.
I don't think it was made exclusively for the Romanians.

Yes, that's right, after March 15, 1939 and the previous annexation of Czechoslovakia on March 14, 1939, the "Československá Zbrojovka" was renamed "Waffenwerke Brünn" and incorporated into the "Reichswerke Herman Göring", from this date the WaA 63 was used there.

I refer here to the WaA acceptance 607 and the dating of the weapons office. It was used only for a short time in 1940. November 1940 must be too late.

The earliest production of the Vz.24 bayonets under Dot code is 1942 and not 1941. Not every manufacturer implemented the coding guidelines in a timely manner.

Are you referring to the entries in a German order book for mid-1941? I think the version without muzzle ring with WaA A80 was already ordered here.




I don't think this could have been the first order. On the other hand, the different WaA acceptance groups speak from WaA 63 to WaA 607 to WaA A80.

The "945" mark was initially used on Czech produced blades. This bayonets were produced without the muzzle ring. Production started at the end of 1940. So the production of the Vz.24 bayonets with muzzle ring must have preceded it.

Germans will have taken their needs from current production for export. There are other similar examples as well.

[AndyB]

So i am little surpriced that You dont believe Mr.Smid as he worked 6 years in czech archives and his studies are excellent with many details. Curiosity was that he started the research after my mail to him about 945 marked bayonets, as he dont known these prior 2008. So he was then reinforced in the research of few years before he wrote his book about the Rifles and bayonets Vz.24 and printed in late 2016.
Both papers that You presented are only information about production and prices nothing more as there exist real delivery sheets and orders for production in the book, similar leaflets exist many but wout exact information about deliveries, they are not much worth for any opinions. The first picture is part of Summary report from Brno october 1941 offcoarse wout exact dates anywhere.
So to Your opinions here presented.
"Yes, that's right, after March 15, 1939 and the previous annexation of Czechoslovakia on March 14, 1939, the "Československá Zbrojovka" was renamed "Waffenwerke Brünn" and incorporated into the "Reichswerke Herman Göring", from this date the WaA 63 was used there."
So the majority overrun of ZB by germans was realised per majority of join stock in late 1939 also normal way not by overran of army or similar things, and the HZA by ZB in Brno was moved exactly in plant Brno on 1.8.1939 see Smid. And see Franek trilogy about history of Zbrojovka Brno.
"I refer here to the WaA acceptance 607 and the dating of the weapons office. It was used only for a short time in 1940. November 1940 must be too late."
This date is total wrong as You dont known the rifle production evidently, on G24(t) production are reported rifles marked only WaA607 in first 4 series and marked dou 1941 only, the switch to A80 was done in series c of dou41. The first bunch of G24(t) was realised in months may-july 1941. The next much later as the production was switched with romanian deliveries.
Rare Nazi Waffenfabrik Bern "dou", G.24(t), | Auction Report
"The earliest production of the Vz.24 bayonets under Dot code is 1942 and not 1941. Not every manufacturer implemented the coding guidelines in a timely manner."
Easy way because start of production for G24(t) was realised by CSZ,Z in circle WaA63, and 607 full ring bayonets followed by deringed A80 bayonets (very late 1941 continued into half 1942 visible on crude finish on Your last piece pictured), and as the Povazska Bystrica had no capacity for realisation of the whole bayonet part of rifle contract, the Brno plant should realise the remained bayonets for this contract, and started even 1942 from this are bayonets only dot 42 and dot43 known. Dot41 are stamped the G33/40 rifles. the long winged WaA63 could be clearly seen on the 1941 dated production.

"I don't think this could have been the first order. On the other hand, the different WaA acceptance groups speak from WaA 63 to WaA 607 to WaA A80. "
Offcoarse was produced in same period on both plants, as plants cooperated on contracts there was not moved from one to other. And thinking is one way, the other are real datas and reports of productions.

"The "945" mark was initially used on Czech produced blades. This bayonets were produced without the muzzle ring. Production started at the end of 1940. So the production of the Vz.24 bayonets with muzzle ring must have preceded it."
No 945 german proofed or marked bayonets are reported only bayonets for Romanian contract, so they were made with barell rings. There are origin papers that germans asked for stoping of use 945 code for other export production. As mentioned before there is not reported any rifle and bayonet contract in 1939, and only G33/40 contract for germans in 1940 that was ordered wout bayonets.

"Germans will have taken their needs from current production for export. There are other similar examples as well."
Thats one of the wrong opinions, the quality that asked germans was much higher as for romanians, from this the productions was divided in months, where the deliveries were done different way with different straightening of barells for germans as for romanians. All this is written in book.

[AndyB]

As i am focused last 20 years of slovak plant production, i going trough the Smid book for more details and my dbase and the switch to removing Czechoslovak marking by both plants should be differentiate and corrected as followed here:
-plant I. Brno is reported by Smid removing the CS marking with start of 3.romanian contract (from middle of OR series) which was for Brno may/1940, also from that time should be on siderail used only the Zbrojovka Brno AS stamp, from bayonets is possible the CSZ were switched to Z in circle in similar timeframe.
-plant II Povazska Bystrica - Czechoslovak side rail remained prior late october / beginn november 1940, still in use same as CSZ on bayonets in same time frame, the Z in doubble circle on bayonets are reported since the end of TR and beginn UR range which were delivered december 1940 and early 1941.
The production of PB plant was much smaller, so they delivered the complete 3. romanian contract even to end of december 1941. The production was switched per months partly for Romania contract and partly for OKH and G24(t) started delivery in may 1941 .