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Re: Chained SS dagger opinions
Here's some info courtesey of Mr. Bruce Petrin on germandressdaggers.com . There is some interesting facts contained therein.
Dagger Information – SS 1936 Chained Dagger
In late 1936 Himmler introduced a new chain hanger for the existing officers daggers and for new officers, a new style dagger for wear, as well as old guard NCO’s and SS members who had joined prior to January 1933.
There are over five pages of documentation that the chain would be issued and not one document stating anything about a new dagger production. Yet, common sense will dictate that new officers would be entering the SS post 1936 and with that said, it’s obvious that the new style dagger was produced.
The later produced dagger was similar to the 1933 SS dagger but with the addition of a chained suspension hanger and a scabbard with a central mount fitting decorated with swastikas and a pebbled background. Crossguards and scabbard fittings, as well as the chain, were all solid nickel. The later made dagger post 1937 era dagger has poor quality base metals with nickel plated fittings. Scabbard finishes can range from Oxide Finnish with a clear lacquer to black lead based paint.
The chain was designed by Karl Diebitsch and comprised of octagonal plates embossed with the SS deaths head and SS runes. This had two meanings to it; the first is the skull and crossbones to signify a secret society. The second is the Sig Rune that is the power of Good over evil. The chains suspension clip was embossed with an ancient Germanic motif called "Wotans Knot".
The reverse of the plates was stamped with the SS proof mark of two intertwined "sig" runes.
There are two different style of chains:
SS Type 1 Chain - that has NO burnishing on the centre band and plates of the chain its self, as well a DRGM marked clip under the Woton Knot. The last two connector rings are square as they enter the Woton Knot.
SS Type 2 Chain - has the dark burnishing on the plates and the centre band, and the Woton knot is solid, with the last two-connector rings angled to fit into the Woton knot.
The SS Chained daggers had no maker’s marks on newly issued daggers post 1937, on period upgrades that consisting of well over 18,000 officers and old guard, these daggers simply had the centre band added and the upper fitting adjusted. Then the chain was added. These will display the early style trademarks and in many cases the SS officer’s numbers.
Again there is NO direct documentation that the blade should not be marked and an unmarked blade does NOT constitute textbook at all. It’s a fact that 95% of all reproductions exhibit no trademark on the blade, as well as post war parts daggers made in the 1960’s have NO trademark.
The new-chained style dagger could only be purchased through official channels and was only initially worn with the black SS uniform. In 1943, officers of the Waffen SS were given
Permission to wear the chained dress dagger with their field grey walk out dress uniform along with a Heer (Army) style Portapee due to their military status. At this time they were also allowed to purchase the chained dagger form official RZM sales outlets.
Production of the dagger discontinued in at the end of 1942.
Regards, Ned.
'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'
In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.
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04-16-2011 08:33 PM
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Re: Chained SS dagger opinions
I would like to add some additional info to supplement what Ned has posted.
The Type 1 and 2 designations are, of course, collectors terminology. These were applied many years ago now. Much is this has now passed into collector folklore and is a bit out of date. The "type 2" actually came out first which can be misleading to the new collector.
The big differences are the design of the skull and the design proof mark on the reverse of the chain. There is also a much rarer newer designated "type 3" skull desgn link, of which I am very fortunate to own on my now well known Dr.Lolling dagger.
There are also variations to the design of Wotan's knot and the centre ramp fittings.
I will take some pics to illustrate these points.
Cheers, Ade.
In addition to the 4 variants seen is a small description of the Production period and Chain types including connectors - Larry C
Out of the 4 Chain Variants are noted as:
Types A , B1 and B2 are equipped with the beveled Wotans Knot connectors
Type A - Nickel fittings with septum in the nasal cavity - Initial Production period
Type B1- Nickel fittings ( No septum ) - Mid period production
Type B2- Nickel plated ( No Septum ) - Mid to late period production
Type C - Equipped with Type I Wotans Knot connectors ( Un-beveled ) - Late period production
Last edited by Larry C; 04-23-2018 at 01:45 AM.
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Re: Chained SS dagger opinions
To piggyback what Bruce Petrin said on the topic, I also believe there is a so-called Type 3 chain which has some subtle feature regarding the skull that's different. The septum maybe? I think the Type 3 also has an extra screw on the center scabbard fitting & an anodized scabbard finish. Oddly enough I had one of these 10 years ago & flipped it because I didn't like the condition which was nice enough but not good enough for my taste. From what I understand they are quite scarce & can bring a premium with the right SS collector, if only I knew then what I know now.
ADDENDUM, I must have missed the 2nd page of this thread, seems I'm repeating Ade, sorry!
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