Differences between early SS & SA/NSKK scabbards

[sweersz]

Pardon me for being a newbie about this as I just got into SS daggers, but I have a couple questions that I haven't seemed to figure out yet in my research.

I know that most SA scabbards are brown, but the NSKK ones are black. If I have an early production SS dagger that is missing its scabbard, are there features to look out for specific to only SS scabbards to ensure I am not buying an SA/NSKK scabbard?

Similarly, if there is possibly an SA scabbard in rough condition that has suffered severe paint loss to where no brown paint remains, how can I distinguish it from an early production SS scabbard? Are there any specific RZM markings on the hanger clip to look out for?

Early SS & SA/NSKK scabbards just look so similar to me, I can't seem to find any differences other than the color, maybe. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[Larry C]

Hi Sweerz..details to look for in an early SS scabbard would be first off having nickel fittings and not the plated type.
The scabbard can be either anodized black or painted black. No RZM marking on the snap clip but the leather hanger may or may not be RZM marked.

NSKK scabbards most will be found to be painted black transitioning over from the SA and painted that way by the now NSKK man as of the 1936 order ...or purchase from an outlet a factory painted scabbard with nickel plated fittings. You will be able to see a difference in the fittings from nickel to Nickel plate.

Early SA scabbards only will have brown anodized scabbards and early nickel fittings up until late 1935 and in 1936 brown painted scabbards with plated fittings.

Regards Larry

[sweersz]

Very helpful information, thanks a ton Larry!! Your expertise is much appreciated as always, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge on this subject!

[Dave H]

There is no difference, other than the color, between early SA, NSKK, and SS scabbards. Similarly, there is no difference between the RZM scabbards of the same type.

What I have noticed is that a lot of early NSKK daggers with 'anodized' scabbards had their scabbards switched with SS daggers.

Dave

[Larry C]

Dave there is a difference other than the color.. between painted and anodized and the production time frame they have been produced.
Other than the black anodized scabbards found on the Type2/B2 and Type1/C ..Chained examples
Color is not the only factor here.

Show the community here early SA daggers that had production brown painted scabbards by the producer. Please
Early SS Scabbards varied either in painted or anodized. You know this.

Best Larry

[Frogprince]

Dave there is a difference other than the color.. between painted and anodized and the production time frame they have been produced.
Other than the black anodized scabbards found on the Type2/B2 and Type1/C ..Chained examples
Color is not the only factor here.

Show the community here early SA daggers that had production brown painted scabbards by the producer. Please
Early SS Scabbards varied either in painted or anodized. You know this.

Best Larry

Larry, I'm glad that you mentioned the time factor because besides the differences between makers - it also varies depending on the time period for what process they were using. Called by the Germans "Brünierung" (the painted type finishes have a different name in period documentation) the ferric oxide type finishes can and do vary for both the brown and blue-black types. And there was some switching back forth. The bottom line here being that for the M1933 types they got away from a more costly very labor and time consuming process for the much less expensive painted type. Best Regards, Fred

[Dave H]

I should have been more precise When I said "there is no difference"

There is no difference between SA/NSKK/SS scabbards for any one maker for any one period. Therefore:

1 - A scabbard of an early Eickhorn SA will be the same as an early Eickhorn SS or NSKK except for color. Same applies to transitionals Eicks and to RZMs make by Eickhorn.

2 - Same thing with early EP&S made SA/NSKK/SS.

BUT, the early EP&S SS scabbard will not necessarily be the same as as early Eickhorn scabbard.

3. However, many makers used pretty much generic scabbards so it is possible that many early SA scabbards will the same as early SS/NSKK scabbards of other makers. Same with RZM

For the guys who go into great detail, note that there are possible exceptions, especially to #3, as one maker switches to rzm earlier than another.

*****************

The same thing applies to the daggers themselves except that the motto changes as well as grip color and rune button . Also there are more exceptions as use of eagles or rune buttons are not consistent, even for any one maker ... but that is another story

Sorry for the initial lack of detail.

Dave