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10-15-2023 08:08 AM
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Not the best pictures one would make to sell a dagger...if it was good...!
The scabbard looks ok, but this is all I can judge by this pictures....
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I also agree the photos are not near good enough. The dagger itself looks like a later model rzm with a blade that has been cleaned aggressively. I would guess nickle plated fittings minus plating. Dagger should be unmarked not rzm.
Scabbard is trying to be a type 1 C chain. I see the drgm but again photos are not real good. Looks like possibly anodized Scabbard. With the dagger being cleaned and incorrect rzm I suspect photos are hiding other issues as well. This would not be for my collection.
Tim
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As Tim030m stated, the dagger itself should have no RZM or makers mark. These were plain daggers with exception the motto. Of course an SS member that already had his dagger could just purchase a chained scabbard when they were qualified to do so to save money.
Length of time served would qualify and authorize wearing the chain scabbard. But this one to me is a mismatched dagger and scabbard.
Also the blade is not very good, it looks like someone ground it on the RZM side and the tip, looks like it was retipped at one point.
The scabbard is pretty messed up. It could be repainted but then your messing with it and reassembly would possibly damage components and you could end up stripping screws of the lower ramp and upper scabbard fitting.
The chain looks like it has white oxides lifting from it. Not a good sign. The clip is marked DRGM which is correct and the SS proof stamp is correct too.
The condition of everything... not very desirable as expensive as these are. I'd wait for a better condition one if this one if more than 3 grand. Even at that price I'd pass on it. Of course thats me as I like these things in better condition.
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I agree that it's not the best example in the world, but it seems like the majority of these available on other sites are either sold or 7-8K+ if they're available....the RZM maker's mark isn't *as* big an issue for me, if a comment in the first post of the pinned message around the study of the chain types near the top of this forum is accurate; "Again there is NO direct documentation that the blade should not be marked and an unmarked blade does NOT constitute textbook at all. It’s a fact that 95% of all reproductions exhibit no trademark on the blade, as well as post war parts daggers made in the 1960’s have NO trademark."
The photos themselves were basically just quick one offs to show the dagger, not necessarily to showcase it....it's possible with a better camera some of the rougher details may be presented in a better light...but it is a "beat but complete" chained dagger, as they say.
The chain on this one presents much rougher than the one I have photos of, in my opinion, and the blade also looks to be (while not as rough), bearing some of the same scuffs/scratches from cleaning and they're asking close to 9K; M36 Chained SS Dagger Type C - Epic Artifacts
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Hello David the example posted on Epic Artifacts is a complete Late production Type C ..which all Chained daggers came from the factory without a producer logo or RZM number but the story goes that some SS men kept their dagger and just purchased the Chain assembly and inserted their daggers into them.
I for one personally like the daggers to be production consistent without having any doubt on why some details are not common with what is expected in a production piece.
The Gents stated above what is correct being in rough condition and has issues possibly also a blade retip. The whole thing looks like a dog chewed on it and dragged it around a bit. ...Nothing well loved with this dagger.
An uncorrupted chain link has been added near the upper scabbard fitting.
The dagger appears correct for this being produced by the Stocker Co. SMF which the RZM number identifies that company.
RZM M7 Makers Code List - Plus SS Dienstdolch Contract Codes
The grip is early the crossguards are late. ...this dagger is a mishmash and some will say that due to production fitting shortages..they used what they had ...which may be true...but again ...too much seen here as been observed by the Gents above and myself ..I for one would leave it where its at.
the chain assembly also appears to be genuine as well...and yes the photos are not the greatest and flash should never be used when photographing Edged weapon types...to much flash bounces back into the camera lense giving that washed out effect.
I dont know what the pricey price tag is on this dagger...but with what is going on...I dont want to have a ton of doubt in my mind after spending quite a few thousand dollars on it.
Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
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IMO providing quality photos for a review is essential. I'm as tech savvy as a snail so if I can do it definitely anyone including a dealer can.
Unfortunately I do think sometimes photos of lesser quality or bad angles are used to deceive. I really try to demand quality photos and have walked away from many purchases because the photos were poor.
I can always reinvest unused money to aquire a nice piece however if I get a subpar piece it can be really tough to get money back or upgrade.
Thanks Tim
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I agree with Larry. Looks like mixed parentage and something to avoid.
At the risk of being a little contrary and pointed with an opinion, if you are ".. by no means anywhere near an expert in assessing condition..", then why don't you shop for items where you have more knowledge ?
Posting indifferent photos on the best of forums will not save you from fakes ... only the obvious ones.
Dave
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