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Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.

Article about: I have the opportunity to purchase what I believe to be an Allgemeine SS helmet from a pawn shop. I thought it may be a fake at first but the more read on this forum and other sources on the

  1. #1

    Default Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.

    I have the opportunity to purchase what I believe to be an Allgemeine SS helmet from a pawn shop. I thought it may be a fake at first but the more read on this forum and other sources on the helmets and comparing decals. I'm thinking there may be a possibility that it may be legit. It does come with documentation from SSDaggers.com with the information of the SS soldier who's name is painted on the bottom of the helmet. I can post pictures of that if you all want to see it. The pawn shop owner said a collector had pawned this and a bunch of other military items and lost them. You guys have way knowledge better than me on helmets. What do you all think? Thank you all in advance for the help!

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    Hi Cjones,

    Not the best photos, but in my opinion a helmet that has been put together to deceive and not one to pursue. How much are they asking for it? These are a very rare helmet and an original example in very good condition generally goes for in excess of $20,000USD, if you can find one.! I’m not keen on the lack of overall look and patina on this one. The name looks like a recent addition…perhaps to link it to the “documentation”, which would be good to see the
    just for interest sake.

    I think this helmet has essentially been put together from original parts. The white chromed leather pads and liner string are original WW1 issue. The liner band may be a replacement, although original WW1, but hard to say as we don’t know what condition the original paint on the rest of the shell was. Overall I think the entire shell was likely in a poor state and lacking most of its original paint and was repainted and refitted, then had decals and the name added. I’ve never studied early Allgemeine SS decals, but other members who may have, should be able to comment on them for further opinion.

    I flipped your photos so that they can be viewed more easily by other members viewing your post.

    Good work on posting it here first before spending your hard earned $$.

    Andy
    Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.

  4. #3
    M38
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    I would have to agree with Andy on his observations. One other thing to point out is that the rivets are WWII style not WWI, which you would expect to see with the WWI liner still in place. I would not be comfortable with this one. I do not believe the decals are original. I too am curious what the price might be, that should be a good clue too.

    Cheers,
    terry

  5. #4
    MAP
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    I would agree with Andy and Terry

    That said, always worth sending a quick email to Kelly Hicks for his opinion.

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  6. #5
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    Not my area of collecting or expertise, did anyone notice the discoloration around the decal, and the bubbles in the decal itself reminds me of a water applied type, used in model sets ? Just my observation.. G
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Allgemeine SS Helmet? Need your expertise.  
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  7. #6

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    Thank you Andy for the info and fixing my pics. I didn't Have the best lighting when I took the pics at the pawn shop counter. I have done quite a bit of car restoration and paint work over the years and too me it doesn't really look like any recent painted over rust to me. But that doesn't mean that someone couldn't of faked the helmet 30 or 40 years ago and then stored it in a damp basement. If you look at the top of the helmet in the first pic you can pretty much see the original green paint on top (its hard to see in the pic) with little unsanded rust freckles. Also the front of the helmet toward the top has surface rust. If you look at the decal pics you can see the little rust bubbles where rust is forming under the paint also. Just giving you guys a description on what i was seeing. On to the price...I can get it for around $300 USD. So I don't feel like they are trying pass this off as the High Price real deal. The pawn shop sells mostly tools. This is the only military item i have ever seen there. I actually went ahead and put it in layaway to hold it. If anything even if it is a fake it would make a good display piece. I will pic pics of the documents that come with it this evening for you guys to look at. Thank you!

  8. #7
    M38
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    The pieces and parts are worth more than $300 so you can't go too far wrong here.

    Cheers,
    Terry

  9. #8

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    Thank you so much MAP! I will send him an email and see what he thinks. Thanks everyone for the help I will keep you guys updated.

  10. #9

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    Quote by Cjones56 View Post
    Thank you Andy for the info and fixing my pics. I didn't Have the best lighting when I took the pics at the pawn shop counter. I have done quite a bit of car restoration and paint work over the years and too me it doesn't really look like any recent painted over rust to me. But that doesn't mean that someone couldn't have faked the helmet 30 or 40 years ago and then stored it in a damp basement. If you look at the top of the helmet in the first pic you can pretty much see the original green paint on top (its hard to see in the pic) with little unsanded rust freckles. Also the front of the helmet toward the top has surface rust. If you look at the decal pics you can see the little rust bubbles where rust is forming under the paint also. Just giving you guys a description on what i was seeing. On to the price...I can get it for around $300 USD. So I don't feel like they are trying pass this off as the High Price real deal. The pawn shop sells mostly tools. This is the only military item i have ever seen there. I actually went ahead and put it in layaway to hold it. If anything even if it is a fake it would make a good display piece. I will pic pics of the documents that come with it this evening for you guys to look at. Thank you!

    No problem at all. And yes, I understand how hard it must be to get pictures particularly when the setting isn’t really ideal. Viewing images over the internet and then trying to appraise a helmet is always very difficult, and sometimes in hand is the best way to gain a true appreciation of what’s going on. Something that looks good in a photo can turn out bad in hand or sometimes a helmet can look completely different depending on how good/bad the photos are. When I’m buying helmet on eBay and the images are badly lit, I download them and then throw as much light on them as is possible. Using that technique I’ve picked up some very nice original WW1 helmets that otherwise didn’t look too impressive.

    But you raise a valid point regarding the paint potentially looking older even if painted 30-40 years ago. Everything gathers patina as time goes by, and I was quite surprised when an older collecting friend told me that helmets started to be faked in the early 80’s, so yes, the paint definitely would have some age to it now and this is something that is making the collecting of Third Reich era camos a little harder as well for the less experienced and even some of the more seasoned collectors out there.

    As Terry said, the helmet parts would worth the $$ alone. Those Imperial era liner pads are hard to find unless actually in a helmet and I could see someone paying that just to complete an original helmet. And yes, it should display well too. I’d be interested to know who the manufacturer is. FYI, it looks to be a size 64 shell as denoted by the depth of the steps on the vent lugs. Unless obscured by paint you should be able to see a manufacturers stamp near the chinstrap post inside the shell on the left hand side.

    Regardless of the outcome, you’ve got a good deal. Looking forwards to seeing what Kelly has to say.

    Andy

  11. #10

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    Quote by Gwar View Post
    Not my area of collecting or expertise, did anyone notice the discoloration around the decal, and the bubbles in the decal itself reminds me of a water applied type, used in model sets ? Just my observation.. G
    I noticed that too Gwar, and couldn’t imagine an Allgemeine SS helmet leaving the factory like that, but if original, who knows how those early SS decals aged? I’ve read that they were transfers applied to the helmet after a varnish or lacquer had been applied firstly and then allowed to become tacky before application of the decal.

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