Dangerous fake or original.
Hello.
Yesterday, this skull was sold on Germany Ebay,this seller from Dortmund,with many usernames and mostly sell fakes.
I don't know, every time,if I see the skull say is good one.
The bigger difference is the nose,but that can be tool-related.
Please,your opinion is required.
Thanks.
Regards, Jannis.
Last edited by johanis1860; 05-19-2021 at 11:50 AM.
I hope for your and my sake that it is original, as we both just bought the exact same one. I just purchased mine from a very well respected member here who I believe is the authority on the subject.
Another good member here recently warned me of a new fake of this rare varient being distributed throughout Europe. It is die stamped and very convincing. I would love to see a confirmed example of the new fake for comparison.
This example you posted from ebay looks to be die stamped and looks to be the same as ours. I do find it suspicious that all of a sudden this varient is showing up in numbers. Here is mine..
I will say original. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Crooked sellers sometimes accidently sell originals. I will say again that this is my favorite pattern skull and I find it ironic that they are popping up everywhere and I can't get my hands on one. The one common trait that may throw people off is that they all seem to have been polished at one time in an effort to make them more appealing.
Cheers, Al
Our skulls are identical, IMO made from the same stamp,with a characteristic nose.by Buster1
For me, are both originals.
I agree, I also respect this member.
The Ebay skull has different nose.
Unfortunately I don't have any other comparisons either, good or fake, so I asked for help.
Regards, Jannis.
I also think that's a good one. I'm curious what carlsson1982 has to say.
Regards,Jannis.
Well.. One thing is for sure, We need to be extra careful with these unmarked skull insignia. A die struck piece will always be the same from one stamp. The only factors that affect the outcome of the insignia that was struck is the material used and the wear that progresses on the die stamp. With a good eye these points of interest can be traced back. In the past most reproductions / fakes were made by casting. Taking the time to make a new die stamp and getting this one as close as possible to the real deal asks for a lot of knowledge and expertise in tool making. I've seen Porrre81 on eBay selling a lot of die struck pieces that were obvious fakes. For instance this one is pretty obvious post war and with attachments that are not seen on real ones, and die struck:
This same seller, Porre81. (known for selling a lot of fakes on ebay) Has also sold the same variant that is shown above with the same oily, artificially aged look. I can't prove this one below is fake, but it deserves some scrutiny if you ask me. These pieces from Porre81 that are questionable end up with other collectors or traders.. This variant originally dates further back then being used in WWII, more like early 1900's or WWI in my mind.
Comparing it to an example that i would be much more comfortable with and the same variant as shown above in my post from Porre81. There are some points that are suspicious and it is possibly made from the same example or picture. The pictures are not great and i can't prove it being bad. One thing that i do know is that most of them that in my eyes are good got flat attachments instead of pointy ones. This is of course not something to judge a piece on.. Since a lot of configurations were made, But it keeps me thinking we may be in a lot of trouble.
Here are some examples that i am much more comfortable with. More detailed and not cleaned or polished. I know the one with the red background is from Aldo, Credits go to him.
@Jannis, I have seen it also go for sale on ebay, But was not comfortable enough in my mind to make the purchase.
Carlsson / Sid mentioned in a previous post / thread that he knows of 3 different types that were made of this variant. I know he posted one of these, but hope to see the other ones to.
-Dos
I wasn't comfortable enough either,with another seller probably yes.Well.. One thing is for sure, We need to be extra careful with these unmarked skull insignia. A die struck piece will always be the same from one stamp. The only factors that affect the outcome of the insignia that was struck is the material used and the wear that progresses on the die stamp. With a good eye these points of interest can be traced back. In the past most reproductions / fakes were made by casting. Taking the time to make a new die stamp and getting this one as close as possible to the real deal asks for a lot of knowledge and expertise in tool making. I've seen Porrre81 on eBay selling a lot of die struck pieces that were obvious fakes. For instance this one is pretty obvious post war and with attachments that are not seen on real ones, and die struck:
This same seller, Porre81. (known for selling a lot of fakes on ebay) Has also sold the same variant that is shown above with the same oily, artificially aged look. I can't prove this one below is fake, but it deserves some scrutiny if you ask me. These pieces from Porre81 that are questionable end up with other collectors or traders.. This variant originally dates further back then being used in WWII, more like early 1900's or WWI in my mind.
Comparing it to an example that i would be much more comfortable with and the same variant as shown above in my post from Porre81. There are some points that are suspicious and it is possibly made from the same example or picture. The pictures are not great and i can't prove it being bad. One thing that i do know is that most of them that in my eyes are good got flat attachments instead of pointy ones. This is of course not something to judge a piece on.. Since a lot of configurations were made, But it keeps me thinking we may be in a lot of trouble.
Here are some examples that i am much more comfortable with. More detailed and not cleaned or polished. I know the one with the red background is from Aldo, Credits go to him.
@Jannis, I have seen it also go for sale on ebay, But was not comfortable enough in my mind to make the purchase.
Carlsson / Sid mentioned in a previous post / thread that he knows of 3 different types that were made of this variant. I know he posted one of these, but hope to see the other ones to.
-Dos
I agree with your observations,but as long as there is not enough comparative material and experienced collectors like carlsson1982 help us with their experience, sellers like the Dortmunders will have always their leeway.
Regards, Jannis
The one posted above are definately authentics, diestruck like they should and there are some variants on this type. I've seen some obvious fakes on "ebay" which looks like the same seller but you can see this from a mile away.
Jannis, Some members on other forums even believe Porre81 and Vanderbilt4392 to be the same person. Some quick google searches on different forums pop up, Warning members for high quality fakes..
Ebay sellers to be aware of -
Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
Warnung uber eBay Verkaufer | Feldgrau
I know him, I've been following him for the last three-four years, has several nicknames Porre81 and Vanderbilt4392 or Arsenal on Militaria321.com.
Its characteristic is the black background in its photos and its location is Dortmund in Germany.
Most of the time you can easily spot his fakes, but there are exceptions.
Regards, Jannis.
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