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Skull 499/41

Article about: Hello, is it possible to have your opinion on this 499/41? Thank you. Regards.

  1. #21

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    Here is one I have mounted to the WSS officers visor. I am still learning about these insignia but what I see is what looks like a strike error, the line from the nasal cavity to just above the top of the teeth. It also looks like the nasal cavity die is striking just to the right of the unfinished nasal opening at the time the die struck the Totenkopf.

    I though what I have shown to be 100% aluminum, not copper with electroplated aluminum finish. Am I wrong with that assumption?

    Both the SS Adler and Totenkopf together on the visor. And these are Cupal?

    Thank you for this thread, I am learning new things on these collectibles nearly everyday and that's after 60+ years being around these collectibles.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Skull 499/41   Skull 499/41  


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  3. #22
    Dos
    Dos is offline
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    Quote by another ant View Post
    you are right Dos.
    My fault,
    but I hope we have gotten something positive out of this mistake and have understood the differences between the copper-aluminum-copper skulls and eagles and the aluminum-copper skulls and eagles.

    Aldo you explain it much more clearly than me, IMO ,thanks.
    No problem. The most important thing is to keep everything correct for future reference, and correct each other where necessary. Everyone makes mistakes... Including me. We as collectors can learn much from each other. The existence of an aluminum base with copper layers on both sides with on top of that silver wash.. is something that was new to me in the world of SS Insignia. Not often seen!!

    Quote by another ant View Post
    A simple answer without details but 100% correct to your question Aldo is

    "Quote by Dos
    In my experience working with these Cupal materials in the past. (Making conventional tools and die stamps, and/or revising them.) It just means a copper base material with an Aluminum material on top or on both sides… so both pieces shown above are Cupal and were listed correctly in terms of material. It can also be the other way around as Aldo shows in post 6# & #10, but that is not seen often. It means a combination of Copper (Chemical element "CU") and Aluminum (Chemical element "AL") with block P of the periodic table. CUPAL."


    CUPAL with back plated.
    Yes, Another Ant is correct. The back plating and/or silverwash is very thin on the back side.


    Quote by Rich Moran View Post
    Here is one I have mounted to the WSS officers visor. I am still learning about these insignia but what I see is what looks like a strike error, the line from the nasal cavity to just above the top of the teeth. It also looks like the nasal cavity die is striking just to the right of the unfinished nasal opening at the time the die struck the Totenkopf.

    I though what I have shown to be 100% aluminum, not copper with electroplated aluminum finish. Am I wrong with that assumption?

    Both the SS Adler and Totenkopf together on the visor. And these are Cupal?

    Thank you for this thread, I am learning new things on these collectibles nearly everyday and that's after 60+ years being around these collectibles.
    This skull you are showing on your WSS Officer's visor is a 499/41 skull from the manufacturer Fritz Zimmermann. The distinctive line on the nasal cavity is normal, and is more pronounced in the later production time of these skulls. A few die stamp flaws are known on this example. For instance the maker mark on the back 499/41. Some have a faint M1/72 mark that crosses this previous one mentioned. Most common with these skulls is a Cupal material, but can't say if i've ever seen one in full Aluminum. I'm more known in the world of Deschler & Sohn, but perhaps other skull colleagues can chime in on this? Nonetheless, hard to say with only a front view. The most important thing is that it looks to be authentic! So please keep it there

  4. #23

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    Quote by Dos View Post
    This skull you are showing on your WSS Officer's visor is a 499/41 skull from the manufacturer Fritz Zimmermann. The distinctive line on the nasal cavity is normal, and is more pronounced in the later production time of these skulls. A few die stamp flaws are known on this example. For instance the maker mark on the back 499/41. Some have a faint M1/72 mark that crosses this previous one mentioned. Most common with these skulls is a Cupal material, but can't say if i've ever seen one in full Aluminum. I'm more known in the world of Deschler & Sohn, but perhaps other skull colleagues can chime in on this? Nonetheless, hard to say with only a front view. The most important thing is that it looks to be authentic! So please keep it there
    Thank you for your reply Dos and since owning this for near 2 decades, I have no plans to remove anything from the visor. That'd be an unforgivable maneuver in the realm of collecting militaria. I know some people would do that but the "curiosity killed the cat" with this rings true.

  5. #24

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    This peice is no longer listed, it sat too long..

  6. #25
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    I know we already discussed the different type of cupal badges at great lengths but I wanted to post this skull. This traditional cupal Zimmermann is extremely well worn exposing the copper in the raised areas contrasted with the dark patina of the original silver finish. But also more interesting is the aluminum core showing through at the chin and lower cross bones. This is the area that most commonly gets worn down to the aluminum.

    Skull 499/41
    Skull 499/41
    Regards, Al

  7. #26

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    Nice one, Al.
    I like the contrasting colors on this one much better than the shiny silver examples.
    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  8. #27
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    Thanks Greg, not mine though. It’s for sale on a website for a measly 1200 euro. I posted it because I like the well worn look of it too.
    Regards, Al

  9. #28

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    Quote by Aldo View Post
    Thanks Greg, not mine though. It’s for sale on a website for a measly 1200 euro. I posted it because I like the well worn look of it too.
    That is a pretty one Al, Im suprised it hasnt been snatched up yet. I love that worn look, I have one with simmilar wear
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Skull 499/41  

  10. #29
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    I have one too, but I really like the one I posted. Too bad I'm broke

    Skull 499/41
    Regards, Al

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