SS Adler and Totenkopf on a black A-SS visor

[Rich Moran]

All the postings that's been done by forum members helps understand who produced these things. for that i am very grateful, so thank you for posting and discussing who made what. Here is 1 I am struggling with, I'd be grateful if some one could please point me to who made the insignia as I am not good enough to say. Thank you in advance for what you might share. Back when this was purchased all I saw was one heck of a beautiful visor with it's insignia. Today collecting these artifacts goes far beyond what then was just mere chasing these artifacts to put into a collection.

So here is the insignia, help please! The image is not the best as it was taken with my cell phone & apologies for that.

[another ant]

I'm sorry but I think I see a combination of copies
I think they are these aged but I cannot specify exactly the type since I am not interested in studying copies only few look ,to recognize them.




or



The cap does not look good either but they are not my field, I think you should ask for an opinion in the section

Cloth Headgear Cap Authentication forum

I hope this helps.

[Rich Moran]

I'm sorry but I think I see a combination of copies
I think they are these aged but I cannot specify exactly the type since I am not interested in studying copies only few look ,to recognize them.




or



The cap does not look good either but they are not my field, I think you should ask for an opinion in the section

Cloth Headgear Cap Authentication forum

I hope this helps.

another ant, I am struggling to understand what you posted & how that relates to the A-SS insignia & visor I posted. That is not the visor and insignia in question. If artificial aging is part of your answer, that aging seen is from living in a high corrosion zone, salt laden atmosphere with vog (volcanic gas particulate) that's emitted from the Kilauea caldera on the big island of Hawaii about 150 miles away. I've had this for near 20 years and when it came to me the plating was near 100% so what happened is not artificial but atmospheric conditions I live in. In Hawaii rust and corrosion are a natural occurrence from emitted elements beyond human control.

[another ant]

I am sorry I was not clear in my explanation.
the badges of the cap are known fakes.
I show you the type of fake badges is about.

in short they are fakes.

[Buster1]

I must agree with Another ant here. The skull almost looks like a cross between an assman and a deschler, but it is neither. It is a known reproduction. Look at the lack of detail and the droopy right side of the nostril around the nasil cavity, thats the telltale sign of this known fake

[Rich Moran]

I've done something here I thought I'd never do. Since Another Ant and Buster 1 pointed out the insignia as reproductions, I removed the Totenkopf too see what the rear is all about.

These images show the what I presume the RZM in the circle in what I think is the wrong place just to the left of the number and not above the number. It is marked RZM M1/17 as seen in the images. I looked for another M1/17 Totenkopf on the forum to compare it to but did not find one. With the list posted by Dimas this is what M1/17 is: RZM M1/17 - E. W. Assmann & Söhne.

By slightly moving the Adler away from the material it too is marked RZM M1/17. Cannot move the Adler too far out for an image though.

Did discover Assman produced Totenkopf's are supposed to have a more rounded pin for it's mounting prongs. On close inspection the squared mounting prongs are anchored into a box that has 2 tabs peened over the mounting prongs as seen in these images. The are examples of other Totenkopf insignia with a similar mounting system.

Another aspect is the eye socket finish on the rear which seems to be like a small o ring as well as the excess material is really stiff and cannot be pushed over.

I must admit though I am seeing Another Ants image and that nasal drop is really pronounced and exaggerated. Looking at other Totenkopf's that are purportedly original have the droop too but not as pronounced.

Certainly confusing to see.

All these years what i thought was original....

Thank you for your help Another Ant and Buster 1.

[another ant]

in the end was the pair of fakes m1 / 17
different back , same face on all these fakes.

Thank you for your reply Dos and since owning this for near 2 decades, I have no plans to remove anything from the visor. That'd be an unforgivable maneuver in the realm of collecting militaria. I know some people would do that but the "curiosity killed the cat" with this rings true.

in this case, unfortunately, the cat was already dead.

[Rich Moran]

Once a dead cat is condemned then slayed, an autopsy is required to discover what killed the cat. Thank you another ant for those images. Pray no one else falls victim to scammers tactics to defraud

The eulogy is read, the cat is DEAD, Maki (Hawaiian for dead) und gestorben is the Adler und Totenkopf.

I could say I'd been taken to the cleaners with this but dead cats do not clean up at all.

[Vocht]

What is the verdict on the cap?

[Dos]

I agree about the skull being a reproduction. Can't comment on the eagle or visor itself.

To prevent any confusion, The message from me that Rich Moran replied on is about a different visor. Linked below, post #21.

Skull 499/41

Please post this one as well in a seperate thread! As i think it stands much more chance being an original.