''Dachau stocks'' Waffen-SS foreign volunteers collar tabs release in the late 70'.
Article about: At first I wrote this thread because I do not want to do what I do not like to read*; opinions or appraisal without original references and sources. My questionning begun with the thread ''R
''Dachau stocks'' Waffen-SS foreign volunteers collar tabs release in the late 70'.
At first I wrote this thread because I do not want to do what I do not like to read*; opinions or appraisal without original references and sources.
My questionning begun with the thread ''Romanian'' collar tab
A serie of Waffen-SS foreign volunteers collar tabs appeared on the market in late seventies. [with at same time ss froreigners' arm shield, ss paratroopers camo jump smock, german paratroopers' side lace or front lace boots.]
_They are embroidered on a uncommun tissu of mat aspect, very thin with a surface aspect as velvet, the reverse look like as satin*; the threads are mat grey and some were unfinished.
_They were sold uncut* or glued with natural glue (easy to dissolve with warm water and steam)
on very tied weft made gum arabic bougran/buckram named ''Einlagematerial'' in german and used as stiffener to make uniforms/caps...
Dachau was a center of distribution for ss items made from private factories, war prisonners camps KGL, and concentration camps KL (if someone need references I got them). {Achtung, it is not because salers wrote they come from Dachau that they are authentic. Dachau is wrote everywhere to sell copie and counterfeit.}
Were this serie of ss collar tabs forged ?
May be not if they were made just after the war 1945-47 on original machine with original material, tissus, threads...???**
But may be Dachau items (collar tabs, armshields...) were made on original (or not) machines in the 70' too.
_I was dubious during 20 years, refered to the books I was reading =Foreign Legion of the third Reich_ David Littlejohn.*** and questionning where they were hidden during 35years ? (same question would apply with those items who appeared as new, 72 years later ???)
* watch this link: www.bills-bunker.de
This very well made site show an interesting uncut B.F.C three leopard collar tab made on this uncommon fabric.
**[ Just for the story ; my father was in the FFOA ''Force Française d'occupation en Allemagne'' from 1948 until 1951, and he told me that some insignias, daggers, medal makers' fabrics...etc, continued to produce items you can buy at P.X. or black market as ''soldiers' souvenirs'' ...but I do not have any pictures of these sales, it is just words from the past... Sorry.]
About the ''Dachau'' stock tabs' serie made on uncommon tissu :
? why would a fake maker used a so unusual tissu and sold unfinished models ? A real clever person to do more authentic ?
***This serie included : watch Foreign Legion of the third Reich_ David Littlejohn
! No page number for the volumes 1-3, as it depends of editions
Four crooked ray sunwheel vol.1
Dutch flaming grenade vol.2
Dutch wolf hook vol.2
three crooked ray sunwheel vol.2
Italian fasces vol.2
British Free Corps 3 Leopards vol.2
Prinz Eugen odal rune vol.3
Hungarian H done in Antique font_ vol 3
galicien ''lion rampant'_' pg. 31 vol 4
ukrainian 's trident_ pg 46 vol 4
Tiger head profil_ pg 129 vol 4
estonian three stars in flam_ pg.186 vol 4
wolf's head profil_ pg 268 vol 4
round shield and dagger_ pg 269 vol 4
Kaminsky RONA maltese cross with 2 crossed swords_ pg. 312 vol 4
weissruthenian 2 joined on lin crosses_ pg 320 vol 4
unknow? archange Mikael cross in circle on 2 crossed spears_ (Siegrunen N°42 (Richard Landwehr)_ pg. 34 showed it as Romanian???) (I got a theory..)
SA acronym symbol
Imperatrice Maria theresa cornflower 22. SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division Maria Theresia
and may be more other model I ignore.
If someone can help me to establish the exhaustive list, it will help collectors, thanks.
Explanation of why man can now be less circumspect and believe that this serie of tabs might be original**** will follow with actual sources,... if I got echo.. as it is a hard task for a non english person.
****[the only person who really know the truth is the maker!!]
End for today,
Yesterday I had dismounted one this collar tab and took some pictures :
_The buckam is glued with gum arabic to avoid loosy thread (see other model of buckram).
_The embroidered fabric is glued on buckram with Mowilith glue*/white carpenters glue/Elmer's glue man can dissolve with white vinegar (never use Acetone or alcool as it disolve acetate, in case of your fabric is mixed wool or coton with acetate)
If the back is on cardboard same Elmer's glue ( see Feuerschutz's model on cardboard)
(*Polymer of vinyl acetate: As an emulsion in water, PVAc emulsions are used as adhesives for porous materials, particularly for wood, paper, and cloth)
_The machine embroidering is done as with eagles, without any tissu or paper as help on back, with mat white shuttle thread.
This serie of waffen ss foreign volunteers tabs is the only serie to my knowledge which include Tiger head profil, 3 leopards, cross on a circle stike out by 2 spears,
I got kriegsberichter's pictures of most of these insignia as being wearing during WW2 :
People become skeptic about this serie of Waffen SS collar tabs as it included models which in Foreign Legion are said as never being used or made during WW2.
Foreign Legion of the third Reich by David littlejohn_volume 4_ page 129 (under the picture of the Tiger head profile )
quotation :
"Tiger head collar patch. certainly never worn, possibly never actually manufactured."
Look at the picture tiger head profile : This guy face look from being caucase citizen... Osturkicher or may be Armenian got the Tiger head and the India Waffen SS got the Wolf head watch at the wolf profile !!!
I am not sure someone is interesting by this thread, but I show people that this serie of SS tabs exist during WW2, (and I got pictures of others too tabs...).
But I am not sure to go futher if none of you is interesting.
To answer one of your questions from the first post, SS-Foreign Legions collar were produced in the 1960's by a New Jersey firm, I believe called "Delta". They produced many rare volunteer collars and I believe many are shown your last post.
Dear Brandeburg. While I have nothing to contribute on the authenticity or period application of these items that may have been produced at Dachau during the TR era, I do appreciate your exploration at the margins of accepted knowledge. It great to see you supporting your conjecture with period photographs. Of course, not many of us have original paperwork, orders and resources at hand,... but I appreciate your effort to expand and test the knowledge base. Thanks Paul
Thank you for the answer CBH but it is the same you wrote in the Romanian SS collar patch, and If I well understand « These tabs serie migth have been made in the sixties, by a firm may be named Delta, situated in NJ »...dot and OVER ...without any sources to rely on.?
Find an answer to this Hot problem could not be so easy for collectors* who own samples, they need proofs.
*(Myself I do not care, I do not collect anymore for 30 years as man can found even in 70' 80' to much copy, I do not posses any one of these SS collar tabs and the models I got the permission to picture and dismounted are from a private Resistance Museum)
This is a TOP IMPORTANT, DECISIVE, CRUCIAL information to obtain as many many books from all over the world used this Waffen-SS volunteers tabs as original samples, even Museum display some of them, and some sellers still propose them, even in some Military auction in France (and surely abroad too) experts** in militaria collectibles proposed them as original.
** I know they want to make money, they are not there to sell real original.
If man want to change things, we need real concrete file, full of real information to avoid collectors to be duped, so someone have to show me what I asked for upon the series of tabs:
_Who make them ?
_When ?
_Where ?
_Did they use original machine and material, threads, fabric ?
Someone should have a catalog showing them as sold after war, or a testimony of the maker, firsts sellers.
I am writing again that “it is a primordial answer to have” :
_so everyone will know they can put a lot of Waffen-ss insignias appraisal books in trash bin,
_ask to military auction to annul the sell of such items.
_ claim to the entire world that many collectors were cheated .
_ or if they are made post war but with original machine and original threads...that they could be considered not as WW2 original made, but as reassembling original parts tabs.
Hope the best minds of this forum will work to resolve this controversial problem...this is what I asked since I digged out the Romanian ss collar patch thread, a debate with first hand informations.
Thanks Backtothefront for the words, and sorry about my poor english...I red I always typed saler instead of seller...etc
Delta International was in California, I knew the man who ran it, and I recall these badges in the 1960s. I was also collecting in the 1960s.
These knock offs must have been based on the plentiful ex Dachau badges to which the Delta International man had access.
He was one of a couple of very energetic fakers in the region, another of whom made SS brassards of excellent quality
and also SA and SS kepis. Yet another made fake US 1917 insignia and SS trumpet banners. He was a skilled embroiderer.
The Delta International person was a pleasant kook. There was a lot of faking of Nazi regalia in California linked to Texas and Bavaria when I started.
I have included evidence of it in many of my posts.
In fact, this fellow sold me his 1940 Organisationsbuch d. NSDAP.
I started to collect more or less in 1961. I still have the first EK1 I got, and also the first NSDAP brassard...
and a lot more.
In any case, the unknown unknowns are legion in all of this, especially if you are under a certain age or have not gotten around in life.
Thanks to those of you who wrote me nice things, by the way, but I am retired from here.
I felt compelled to answer this, since there are few operational persons with a certain perspective.
Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-05-2018 at 08:19 PM.
John Angolia states in "Cloth Insignia of the SS",
"....during the late 1960s a firm in New Jersey produced some excellent reproductions (everything from the "England" 3-lion to the more common "Italian" legion tabs) and these reproductions also have these thread lines on the backside."
I believe the name of this firm was Delta as they produced a wide range of reproductions, but I have no proof.
My only foreign tab is German made 23 SS "Nederland" with RZM tag.
I stand corrected, Hi F-B always great to hear from you.
Please do not get me launched on the "Cloth SS insignia" book and its errors.
Delta International existed in the shadow of Mount Diablo east of Berkeley, California,
and, as I wrote, its proprietor was a pleasant sort of kook as existed in large numbers
especially then in the Bay Area. I grew up with these people and learned the first of my craft with them,
actually. Maybe his insignia came from New Jersey, but I had the sense he had it all made, and
on what machines I know not.
The Cary Grant Audrey Hepburn film of 1963, Charade, was on television just now, and it is the story of somewhat less than honest GIs making off with loot from the war.
These fakers were of the same ilk, really, all the flotsam and jetsam of total war.
Others have included the catalogs from Delta International elsewhere. The stuff was
mostly obviously fake even at the time, but the volunteer patches were of higher quality,
but I never paid close attention to it. It was easy enough to compare it with the plentiful
ex-SS WVHA stocks found in Bavaria, which were hardly uncommon in the 1960s, either.
Be of good cheer, friends, and relish the unknown unknowns, also a thing from the 1960s in all its vanished glory.
By the way, all of you who send me notes about returning here and otherwise have breathless questions about authenticity to answer,
I have decided to give it all up here as has Bob Coleman. Life is too short and too conflicted for this kind of thing. Good luck with the buckram and the embroidery and such. What with the prospect of a collapse of government and nuclear war and busted computer chips and my hardening arteries and declining typing skills, such things strike me as superfluous.
Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-05-2018 at 09:50 PM.
''Dachau stocks'' Waffen-SS foreign volunteers collar tabs release in the late 70'.
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