Hoping to get help savng a newbie from an expensive mistake!

[NZ Allblacks]

Hi,

I just recently joined your forum as want to start collecting genuine WW2 items to pass onto my young fella someday.

I've read the warnings on here about avoiding auctions and buying from trusted sellers due to the sad amount of fakes around as less chance of making mistakes.

Could you have a look at this armband from a seller who has apparently been in business a lot of years and let me know if you think it is legit?

I can't find any images online that show the RZM maker/year above the other tag like this one so thought best to ask.

Many thanks, Dave.

Appreciate maybe not easy given the quality of pics but any advice much appreciated. Thanks, Dave.

[Gwar]

The oval looks too round and I thought 61/35 were proven bogus, wait for others, G

[Rakkasan187]

Dave,

Welcome to the forum...

I Agree with GWAR..

61/35 Tags are fake in this configuration. The one you are showing I believe is a Texas fake (Reddick Reproduction)

Here are two links. One discusses in detail the original configuration to some original 61/35 SS Armbands

The second link provides some insight into the fake 61/35 tags and armbands.

SS armband 61/35

61/35 fake SS armband?

Just a suggestion as you are new to collecting and you wish to leave some items for your son someday.

Study the items thoroughly before you purchase and just because a dealer has been in business for many years does not mean they don't make mistakes. You should also look at the money back policies if you are not happy with your purchase. True dealers will stand on that as part of their reputation and not hesitate to refund money if you are not completely satisfied. Also there will be some dealers that will tell you their items are original and we as the collecting community know nothing of what we talk about when an item is scrutinized and deemed fake. Some take denial as a hard pill to swallow because in the long run they will lose money and be stuck with a fake, so even if they know the truth, money and greed drive their trains.

SS items are also very difficult to start a collection off with. There are many lower priced original items that can be purchased, and they are just as significant as the SS items. Tinnies are rather inexpensive and there are thousands of them, literally. Not too many Tinnies were faked (some of them were yes, but the vast majority of the WHW, Party Day Tinnies, Workers Tinnies have not been faked. There are other items that can be purchased as well, shoulder boards, Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe Specialty rates are very abundant and inexpensive as well..

So just a few thoughts before taking the deep plunge. And always ask questions and vet the items for authenticity before buying.

Good luck, happy collecting

Smitty

[NZ Allblacks]

Many thanks for your quick reply, you have just saved me over £600. Seems this is a mine field even buying from a seller reporting 30 years experience.

I will indeed take your advice and do a lot more research before parting with my money and will keep an eye on classified on this site.

Maybe against forum roles but if possible I would appreciate any dealers you recommend that do their best to supply genuine items. Could private message me if names not allowed on forum.

Thanks again, Dave.

[Rakkasan187]

Dave,

We are always passing information and knowledge back and forth here, so there are no secrets. We want to be as transparent as possible.


Each of the members here will tell you who they have had good and bad experiences with. I can only recommend US dealers since I live in Texas, but I have been very pleased with them and more importantly their ethics and code of conduct are two attributes that I trust about them. If you don't mind the shipping costs which are always an issue when dealing with overseas, but you will have to see for yourself.

The Ruptured Duck is one that I have done business with in the past and I have been always very happy with them. Bill and Sue Shea are some great people.

The Ruptured Duck - Original WW2 German and US Militaria For Sale – The Ruptured Duck, LLC

Daniel Griffin of Griffin Militaria is also a dealer that I have worked with and again I am pleased with his merchandise as well as his ethics.

Griffin Militaria – Quality Military Collectibles

One other site that I have used that is based in Canada is Lakeside Trader. Paul is a decent person, and he has some very good items as well.

These are just some of my suggestions based on my experiences. Others may have other dealers they work with and may share with you, their experiences.

Lakesidetrader | German WWII Daggers & Medals

I will add this caveat: I do not, and I have not worked for or with these dealers and so my endorsement of them is my opinion and mine alone.

Also at the bottom of the forum page are lists of dealers:

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/milit...ealers-corner/

And as always Dave, Feel free to reach out to the members here. Many will help you on your way and steer you in the right direction.

Best regards, stay safe

Smitty

[Rich Moran]

A tip I'll pass along is with a known dealer such as who was mentioned, provide them with a want list. Dealers may already have some items in stock as well. Most list what they have but some will keep inventory off their listings as they want to do updates so items they have in reserve are used for their updates. Dealers are collectors too so knowing that at times they might choose to sell an item as they need the money to purchase more inventory. The down side to giving a dealer your want list is sell price they will ask. But with some things the demand is so high that they will price over what the market typically will bear. You can always negotiate but keep in mind the word to remember is "next" as a price you might not be willing to pay, someone else might be. Start with 1 or 2 items and as you accumulate these add to the list.

[NZ Allblacks]

Many thanks for recommendations and advice.

Certainly ordering internationally is not an issue as do that for my custom Harley parts. It’s the custom charges that can hurt but sometimes things just go straight through without getting hit. Luck of the draw.

Great idea about leaving a list with the dealers what I’m looking out for. I’m coming into this expecting the genuine items to cost a bit. Better that than end up with a load of reproduction & fakes.

Thanks, Dave.

[NZ Allblacks]

Guys apologies for posting another fake or not but I'm finding these SS armbands nearly impossible to find and don't stick around or i'd do a lot more research myself before posting.

I did a quick look through the relevant posts regarding fakes but nothing really shouts bad to me as the stitching/cloth looks the same as does the swastika. Unfortunately there is no mention of tags inside or a photo which is maybe something needs seen to help decide?

Its going for £850 so certainly not a cheap fake if it is one. Thoughts much appreciated as usual. Thanks, Dave.

[Rakkasan187]

It looks alright from the photos but really this is one of those items that you have to "feel" in hand to make a better assessment and determination. There is something about the cloth and holding it that better confirms. It is kind of difficult to really explain, but after handling so many of these items you get an idea of what the cloth should look like and feel like

Smitty

[NZ Allblacks]

Thanks for reply Smitty.

Unfortunately where i'm located I have to purchase online without getting to see it first, not that I would know good from bad anyhow.

I have emailed the dealer to ask for a picture of the inside behind the swastika and any ID tags stitched inside.
Struck me as odd that part of the armband was not pictured. Thankfully I've managed to locate some of the books Vocht had kindly suggested so that should help going forward.

Maybe you could also let me know if it is expected that all genuine SS armbands should have some sort of RZM tag stitched to the inside like ive seem most on this forum seem to have (ignoring the fake 61/35 I posted originally)? Cheers, dave.