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Hello
"If I showed you a period photo of a camp doctor wearing the said armband would this be proof enough for you?"
Yes, it would be a good start. Don't get me wrong I love a good debate (which is what I consider this to be). But there were many camps with many doctors, IF it were protocol for these to be issued and worn by SS medical personnel (enough to warrant an rzm license to manufacture) as you use for supporting evidence of authenticity, then why are they rare? Why produce reproductions of "rare" or fantasy items? The easiest question of all to answer..money money money. And without provenance who's to say it's not real, easy peasy ramp up the production. They are most likely Delta products of 70's manufacture. Nothing more. I am not an expert as well. If you want a legitimate answer to the question, the moderator Karl is the person you would seek. His understanding and study of the KZ system is second to none on the site. But you have been given multiple opinions by people (valued members, some of whom are now passed on) who studied TR militaria for more years than I have been alive express their opinions on the subject and I trust what has been written previously. Kindest regards.
Brian
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01-07-2019 12:50 PM
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Yes some dr's had runes stitched to there coats. But assistants didn't and smaller camp dr's didn't and out of Germany they didn't.
As for curators know nothing and believe the donors, well that's ridiculous.
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On the money issue the fake bands cost around $10 u.s. Not slot of money to be made. This debate has been going on since the fake examples appeared so it's not new and therefore I trust these experts should know their stuff on the subject. The example I possess comes from a museum who study TR items daily. I have other museum items from Germany that I am sure any expert would admire. Don't get me wrong. I respect all opinions here as I know collectors are passionate. But at this stage I still say there real.
Best regards Jack.
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by
Jack Doe
Did Nazi armbands come in many types for many jobs ie. Railway workers etc. yes! Did camps have different badges/patches for different people. Yes.
Does this mean that we have to assume every armband to be possibly real? No!
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Jack Doe
Why make a repro of a fantasy item? What proof do you have that the said item is fantasy. Are you claiming no period evidence of this item exists even though there is a researched and documented example with RZM label on display in a museum.
The burden of proof does not rest on the person stating that a wholly undocumented item is a fantasy piece, but on the person claiming it to be real.
For your information, there are countless silly fantasy items with no basis in reality whatsoever out there, and decorating them with RZM labels/stamps is one of the fakers' most popular methods.
Also, many museums have fakes on display.
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Jack Doe
Yes some dr's had runes stitched to there coats. But assistants didn't and smaller camp dr's didn't and out of Germany they didn't.
Please state a source for this information.
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''Also, I am slightly biased on this as I own an original of this armband and can assure you that it is different to the repro's that have been selling for years.''
Perhaps you should post photographs of it in this thread? I'm sure those following the discourse here will be interested.
B.B.
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Please show proof of these countless museum fakes. As for the numerous fantasy armbands are you claiming therefore the nazis didn't have numerous different armbands for numerous different jobs? From my hearing there were at least around 60 genuine documented different armbands. That's a lot of different jobs. No where have I claimed fantasy pieces don't exist. That would be silly. I am claiming this piece did exist. I have never seen experts back down on the internet so to put my band up I know it will be torn to shreds when in fact is genuine but will consider it. I also don't claim RZM labels don't get faked. I'm simply stating what is on display. I repeat also on display is the wearer, his photograph, the place it was worn etc. if it is not up to the person who calls fake to prove it then we really have a problem with our system as I think the responsibility is on them for proof As we all know and have seen real items branded as fake in sales posts around the world for many reasons.
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Although everything I tell you is being rebutted I am yet to see any evidence in these rebuttals except the fact people have for whatever reason accepted they are correct and the band is fantasy. A lot of times this starts as a statement that for whatever reason they get away with. It is then repeated by believers over generations as each reads and believes until it becomes seemingly fact until after a few generations no one will see any reason in the truth. Now I'm not saying I'm definitely right and you are definitely all wrong but your pickings at my points to me have said very little and shown very little proof for your solid opinions. Apart from the fact you all have vast knowledge and all agree it's fantasy. A little proof would go a long way and I say that proof should come from the people claiming fake.
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Whatever. This is an exercise in futility.
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If the museum pieces I own (and some have letters of authentication from highly respected German museums) are possibly fake then we really do have a problem. To legally sign a letter of proof is really putting your reputation on the line and there is a lot to lose if proven wrong. A museum relies on the respect of the people. Without this they would be in all sorts of trouble.
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As for an exercise in futility a lot of claims have been made against the piece with no proof. If one differing opinion upsets you that much is strange as why should it. There are numerous knowledgeable people backing you up. Why get Pooey over one different opinion. You havnt shown me one bit of evidence to support your claims but pick over my points. That is alright from my side and expected but I have shown you some evidence to back my claims and told you of other evidence.
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