SS-VT arm Eagle and Bahnschutzpolizei arm Eagle confusion

[brandeburg]

First I am new on your Forum, so hello to everyone.
My name is from old time uniform making : Brandeburg are the cord which replace/serve as buttonhole to close jacket.

This thread is to help to clear some errors made even on this forum to expertise SS_VT Arm adler :

I do not give my "expert" opinions but give you some weblinks to understand common error: some unscrupulous or "ignorant"? dealers sold and still selling Bahnschützpolizei arm eagle as SS6VT arm eagle, and some people expertise this are good piece.

No sorry SS-VT eagle are the rarest eagle to find, even on original photos...so look this thread on another forum (russian) and the Bahnschutzmuseum of Benneckenstein site and original pictures you will establish that
_ the real SS-VT adler/eagle has different shaped wing and is head turn to "his left" so looking to the right for us.
_the Bahnschützpolizei has is head turn to his right so looking left to us and different wing shape, more smooth.

bahnschutzuniformen - http://www.bahnschutzuniformen.ag.vu/ - Uniformen vom Bahnschutz


HOPE no one will come mad, this is just to help collectors not to be fool and loose money

1st Pattern SS Officer's Bullion Sleeve Eagle

[brandeburg]

here a real Banhschutzpolizei eagle but dyed by WW2 German stuff saler to look SS-VT :
Some original Banhschutzpolizei arm eagle were stitch grey on a darkgreen wool fabric, so clever saler dyed the wool fabric with some kind of darkblue/indigo to look black.

and a picture of original ones.... I never found a real on use during a too short period, even on Poland or France invasion pictures, never see one of them.

Hope it helps

[brandeburg]

here a picture of how the SS-VT elbow of the wing should look like:

[11C]

What do you see here.....?

[11C]

How about this one....?

I would suggest you understand that the photos of the eagles facing right (our right) were taken at a later date. Early SS-VT eagles face to "their" right or our left. After the SS-VT was incorporated into the Army..........the eagle's head looked to its left by order of Hitler. That is why war period eagles are different from early political eagles in the way their head faces. That is also why the SS-VT eagle can face either way...............just depends on early vs late. BTW, the SS-VT eagle that faces to its right is much rarer than the left facing ones; as your photos of multiple eagles would suggest.

[brandeburg]

Sorry, I am a ignorant and stupid Person too...
and it is not the first time, My place is not here.

but could you give me please; for my own education and for other people the number of the hitler's ss order to change the face, so It would be helpful. Pictures too.
Some of the eagle you show are the same as in the Bahnschutzmuseum of Benneckenstein, So do they use the same?
or furnished with old stock???

It does not change that some dealers tainted Bahnschutzpolizei eagle to lurk people.

And again sorry for the void of knowledge... as I wrote 20millions under german military uniforms and 2times under NSDAP and other paramilitary uniforms, no one could know even with original documents where some are missing, or even some offices ignore what is done on the field.

I give my apologies too to other readers, for the misleading I undertook.

[d'alquen]

I would certainly be very interested in seeing the document that 11C refers to. I don't believe the SS-VT was ever incorporated into the Army. In the case of conflict the SS-VT was placed under the command of the Army but remained, as per Hitler's decree of 1938, a formation of the Nazi Party and an armed force at his disposal.
To brandeburg's point, Bahnschutzpolizei eagles are constantly foisted off as SS. The heads of these eagles face, correctly for a State eagle, to the viewer's left.
Party eagles, as in all the photographs I have seen of SS-VT arm eagles, face to the eagle's left.
And, for what it's worth, I tend to think the first pattern arm eagles worn by the SS-VT and some members of the SS-TV were the same regular Party eagles worn by other NSDAP organisations, and were not a specific eagle created for the SS.

[11C]

The following are the SS bullion eagles in chronological order top to bottom. Note the eagles head and how it changes.

[11C]

I don't believe the SS ever were part of the Army either...........but they were incorporated into the Army. By incorporated, I mean they worked with the Army in certain situations transitioning from a political organization to a military organization during that time.

Panzer sleeve eagles also make the shift from right facing to left facing during the same period.

[HPL2008]

Panzer sleeve eagles also make the shift from right facing to left facing during the same period.

What do you mean by "Panzer sleeve eagle"?

Army tankers wore breast eagles; SS tankers wore the usual sleeve eagles.