Si 66 Steel M17 Helmet impressions.

[Coreynewzealand]

Hello from New Zealand.
As this is a new addition I would love some feed back from you guy's on this Si66 M17 ?? recently added to my cabinet.
I got this as a ....transitional helmet?, please correct me if I'm wrong.

So as it started out in the first world war I thought I would start here to get your take on it. Sorry if it's a no no ..... happy to have it moved to another section if it should be.

It looks to have good age with nice maker stamps and heat numbers in the crown and I understand it to be a 1930's liner with name tag and also maker and date on the chin strap 0f 1935?.
Would think one decal has been removed in order to denazify it?
I did also notice the wear to the chin strap D's , especially on one side..... thought that was interesting.

Would love to know your thoughts.
Sorry about the photo's as indoor photos are a headache to capture it's full glory.

Cheers
Corey

[AndyM35]

Hi Corey,

Yes, this helmet is configured as a true Transitional using a WW1 M16 shell produced by Eisenhüttenwerke Silesia, Paruschowitz Oberschlesien, and with an M31 liner and TR decals applied. The M31 liner appears to be suspended from an early single ply aluminium liner band. You should be able to see thick rivet heads protruding from the leather band and between the inside of the alu liner band. Are you able to photograph these? The two front liner pins appear to be missing their the caps from on top. The chinstrap appears to be an early (1935?) example produced by Kritzler K.G. Rebbelroth.

I would like to see some outdoor pictures of the helmet in low light and hi res as I am a little perplexed by the paint not having seen an early transitional produced with green textured paint and double decals. Early transitionals often retained their WW1 paint or were later painted in a shiny green non-textured paint in the latter part of the 30’s. Also, the two front liner pins with caps missing, are painted over suggesting a paint application after the helmet was put together
which would be a bit unusual.

I’m going to have to defer to the decal experts on the tri colour, so let’s see what they say.

Some outdoor photos would be great to see.

Andy

[Danmark]

To my eyes even the rear pin seems to be missing its cover ? ( and I believe these should be of brass construction, can you see inside at the prongs? )

[Coreynewzealand]

Thank you for the info, great points.
Yes I will try to get some better day light images when the sun comes back.

This is the only transitional I have so nothing to compare it with.
Thank you for taking the time to have a look.
Greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Corey

[Coreynewzealand]

I will have another look.
From memory the pins inside did look like brass.

Cheers
Corey

[AndyM35]

Hi Corey,

Have a look at Schwerpunkt’s (Frank) site as there are some good examples of the various types of Transitionals there: Transitional Heer Helmets (M16 – M18) – German Helmet Vault

Andy

[Coreynewzealand]

Wow fantastic site and some great photos too.

I see he also mentions (Transitionals come in all paint colors (from light green to dark grey) and textures. Both hand re-painted and factory painted shells exist.
I'm not jumping to conclusions but that's encouraging.

Thanks for the link Andy
Always learning.

Cheers
Corey

[Coreynewzealand]

Hello
Just reading on that fantastic site that was linked by Andy. (Thanks again )
It talks of and shows on a couple of helmets the single band aluminium liner fitted with the flat rivet heads.

Are the flat rivets in my photo's that type of flat variety or are they a different fixing all together.
Some of them look to be possibly covered in paint also.

If only helmet's could talk, this would be alot easier......not that I can understand German.
Cheers
Corey

[AndyM35]

Hi Corey,

I believe the comment about textured helmets is in reference to later after the outbreak of WW2 when these helmets were reissued with textured paint and a single branch decal. Quoting Jan Meland from his excellent new book “German Helmets 1916-1945”, he states “Early transitional helmets retained the paint from WW1, liner and chinstraps, but were equiped with different service branch decals and National shields...As the outbreak of war approached, the WW1 helmets received M31 liner, feldgrau paint (shiny) without texture and WW2 chinstraps” , pp.20.

You can see an example of the thick head rivets I was referring to on Franks site in the liners section titled “Earliest M31 liner”. However it’s hard to see from the photos as I can only really see one so not entirely sue what type they are. Note the original WW1 M16 chinstrap posts still in place.

As Rene points out, the rear liner pin also appears to be missing its cap head which is a little concerning. You see a cover missing occasionally which is to be expected with what these helmets went through, the passing of time and post war abuse, but usual for all three to be missing and painted over. No two transitional helmets are ever the same which is what makes them so interesting, so could just be an anomaly.

I’d like to see how the paint on the outside of the shell looks with some outside photos.

Andy

[Coreynewzealand]

Here are some photo's just taken out side now before the rain sets in.
Yes the rivets look to be brass on the inside.
Sorry if this is too many photo's.

Cheers
Corey