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M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

Article about: Howdy again, friends. I've got an M42 here, and I'd like to ask for forum for some assistance. In an effort to purge any "messed-with" helmets from the collection, I've taken a ver

  1. #1

    Default M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

    Howdy again, friends. I've got an M42 here, and I'd like to ask for forum for some assistance.

    In an effort to purge any "messed-with" helmets from the collection, I've taken a very close look at this particular M42 CKL64 Heer helmet that's been on my shelves for while. I'd like your opinions on a few things, but ultimately I'm wondering, is the liner possibly original to the helmet, or could it be wartime or post-war replaced?

    The leather, stamped 57 (sorry if it's hard to read, it was difficult to photo), sits oddly in the liner with the split not directly at the rear. Anyone else recall seeing anything like this? Looks like, possibly an old shoestring(?), has been replaced as the liner drawstring.

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

    The liner itself, stamped 64 n.A./56 and B&C LITZMANNSTADT 1943, is held in pretty tight (two front split pins have some slight play, rear rivet is tight) but one of the split rivets doesn't look entirely flat (see pics). Issue? Or am I being paranoid?

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

    See below for some more overall pics of the M42. It's a great looking shell with what I think is a terrific ET decal, nice paint with very few scuffs/scrapes and believable wear on the liner, but if there's evidence it's been tampered with...well... . So what do you think?

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

    Still slightly visible acceptance stamp on the lid:

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

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  3. #2

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    I want to emphasise that rivets being loose does not equate to there being a problem. Not at at all. You need to look at other aspects like how the legs are bent , does the wear match the liner band and do the rivet heads match the overall patina on the outside. That aspect is hard to see in your photos. So far it looks ok to me.

  4. #3

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    Quote by Schwerpunkt View Post
    I want to emphasise that rivets being loose does not equate to there being a problem. Not at at all. You need to look at other aspects like how the legs are bent , does the wear match the liner band and do the rivet heads match the overall patina on the outside. That aspect is hard to see in your photos. So far it looks ok to me.
    Thanks so very much for having a look and taking time to respond. I've used your website as a resource for years, and value your input.

    I've taken a few shots of the split rivets. The overall patina and wear seem to match the helmet. It's a little difficult to see, but the legs pictured below definitely have some minor kinks in them. One of the things that really concerned me was the oddly aligned leather with the split not being centered at the rear... is this something you have seen before? Much thanks!

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!
    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

    Kinked legs:

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

    Mis-aligned leather:

    M42 Heer Stahlhelm - Help with Liner!

  5. #4
    TWS
    TWS is offline
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    Quote by Schwerpunkt View Post
    I want to emphasise that rivets being loose does not equate to there being a problem. Not at at all. You need to look at other aspects like how the legs are bent , does the wear match the liner band and do the rivet heads match the overall patina on the outside. That aspect is hard to see in your photos. So far it looks ok to me.
    +1 to all.

    As German soldiers wore their helmets, particularly when physically active ie. running and jumping on the battlefield or in training it would loosen the rivets over time.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  6. #5

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    Quote by TWS View Post
    +1 to all.

    As German soldiers wore their helmets, particularly when physically active ie. running and jumping on the battlefield or in training it would loosen the rivets over time.
    Thanks for the input - always appreciate you having a look at my collection.

    I guess the rivets are beginning to concern me less, but the positioning of the leather is still odd. I haven't been able to find any examples with the seam not at the rear - except for some M35 re-issues. I have seen some of those with the same issue.

  7. #6
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Default

    Quote by TWS View Post
    +1 to all.

    As German soldiers wore their helmets, particularly when physically active ie. running and jumping on the battlefield or in training it would loosen the rivets over time.
    +2

    I'm not seeing anything overtly wrong from these photos.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  8. #7

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    Quote by MAP View Post
    +2

    I'm not seeing anything overtly wrong from these photos.
    Thanks for having a look - I always appreciate your comments. Still wondering though if anyone finds the positioning of the leather odd. I've seen plenty of helmets with the seam not quite at the rear of the helmet, but this one is quite a bit off to the side. Seen anything like it before by any chance?

  9. #8

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    Quote by DerFunker View Post
    Thanks for having a look - I always appreciate your comments. Still wondering though if anyone finds the positioning of the leather odd. I've seen plenty of helmets with the seam not quite at the rear of the helmet, but this one is quite a bit off to the side. Seen anything like it before by any chance?
    Yes seen a lot actually.

  10. #9
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Quote by Schwerpunkt View Post
    Yes seen a lot actually.
    +1. Agree.

    Not normal or common. But certainly not rare.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  11. #10

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    Quote by DerFunker View Post
    Thanks for having a look - I always appreciate your comments. Still wondering though if anyone finds the positioning of the leather odd. I've seen plenty of helmets with the seam not quite at the rear of the helmet, but this one is quite a bit off to the side. Seen anything like it before by any chance?
    That's probably down to how they put in the leather into the inner ring or the inner ring into the liner band.
    The inner ring is held in by 5 leaf springs and it doesn't matter which way you put it in at the end so that may have resulted in the seam not being exactly at the rear of the helmet.
    Nothing to be concerned about anyhow.
    Luis

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