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Need help identifying a World War 2 German helmet.

Article about: Hi all, I bought what looks like a Nazi World War 2 helmet at a swap meet. I have been doing a massive amount of research and have found nothing that looks like this helmet. It has been repa

  1. #11

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    Map,
    This is not a modern fake, if it was modern there would not be rust all over the liner and there would not be pitting in the shell of the helmet. Also you do not have to be so condescending when correcting someone on something.

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  3. #12

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    Rust is something that can be quite easily induced. In most cases simply burying a metal object in your back garden for a few weeks/months can create enough surface rust and staining to give the item a convincing patina. There are also various chemicals, widely available, that can be used to induce rusting or produce a rust-like colouring.

    My fellow forumers do not mean to appear condescending. They are merely stating facts. Knowledge is paramount in this hobby, as it is the only tool at our disposal to combat fakes and build worthwhile collections. When a helmet such as this is shown, which would not convince anyone who has seen even a single photo of a period-correct stahlhelm, the response is most likely going to be one of incredulity. Understand that everyone here is only interested in providing assistance, to anyone and everyone who may require it. This requires being very blunt at times, in a way that can come off as snappy or rude. It is simply an attempt to render help, not a personal attack or an attempt to slight.

    If this one has David stumped, it's not a mystery that's likely to be solved anytime soon. In my humble opinion, his input is one to be trusted. As someone who has spent many years collecting and studying steel helmets, he offers an insight that not many others here can match. (I apologize if there are any other helmet aficionados here that I have not heard of up to this point).

    If I had to field my own guess, I would guess this was either a reproduction for theater or cinematic use, or part of a fancy dress costume. It may very well be old, it may very well be period. From which period, we cannot say. One thing is certain; it is definitely not a Third Reich-era combat helmet. Whatever it may in fact be, is something we would all be interested to discover together, preferably without tearing one another's throats out in the process.

    Regards, B.B.
    ''Everyday you think of living. We are born to die, but I appreciate life. We live day by day, and I always say: yesterday is history, today's reality, and tomorrow's a dream.' -- Henry Flescher, Holocaust Survivor -- March 14, 1924 - August 29, 2018

  4. #13

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    Old theatrical or an old bikers helmet.
    Just remember what the lugs were for too.
    Last edited by reneblacky; 10-13-2018 at 12:57 AM. Reason: added text
    Regards
    René

  5. #14

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    Hello Warhorse.
    This is not a lynching gang or whatever. It's not a clique either. MAP is probably the most caring, non-confrontational member here. Believe me he meant no insult to you.
    David
    "When 10 men tell you you're drunk, you better lie down."

  6. #15

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    +1 on that that's for sure.
    Regards
    René

  7. #16
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

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    Quote by WarHorse View Post
    Map,
    This is not a modern fake, if it was modern there would not be rust all over the liner and there would not be pitting in the shell of the helmet. Also you do not have to be so condescending when correcting someone on something.
    Sorry WarHorse. There was no intended condescending intent and not sure what part of my comment you were referring to.

    First, my comment ("Like who???") to RealSteel (David) was high praise cloaked as a joke. Dave, Terry (m38) and a few others on this forum are world class experts when it comes to German helmets and tenured members here know full well the truth to this statment.

    My second comment ("Sorry to say but there is nothing WW2 or German about this helmet...") was polite (I used the phrase "Sorry to say"). If you found the word "nothing" as condescending, I apologize but that is just a proper grammar and a statement of fact. As you noted in your Introduction post. You were looking for opinions on some items you own. I gave you my "opinion". I could have said it "might" be or " I don't think it is" a WW2 German helmet but that is not true and in the end would not only not help you, but hurt you as you continue your journey of being an experience collector. Any collector that has spent even a modest amount of time truly studying German helmets would easily come to the same conclusion that it is not a German WW2 combat helmet (or even WW1 or interwar). As a teenager, I wish I had the opportunity to not only have access to, but also to receive honest truthful advice. If I did, I would not have a draw full of high cost fake awards that set me back a few thousand dollars. When I joined this forum, I posted each and every one of them and received the honest but straight answer. They were all fake. But....I didn't take any of these blunt responses as being condescending. They were educational and I learned from them. Since that time, I have studied, studied and studied some more, used the resource on this forum, built friendships and networked with other members here. And the results? I can now provide help to others and 99.999% of everything I have purchased is 100% original.

    My third comment ("Ground up modern fake IMHO") was as I note just my opinion as being modern. As Brian notes, rust and or pitting is not a foolproof indicator of age. If I had time, I could dig up more than enough threads where we have seen heavily rusted helmets that are modern Chinese reproductions. I even spent some time looking through threads on this forum, another forum as well as Google to find a match. I found one "close" example via Google that was being sold on Ebay and listed as a Chinese reproduction. I didn't mention it because it was not an exact match but it was close.

    Further, "forced" rust is a critical tool used by con artist to fool collectors and we see it and other methods all the time. Here is a link to one just recently posted. A heavily rusted and pitted helmet. But a ground up fake.

    SS helmet original or fake?

    The basic fact is that David, Terry, Neil, myself and many of the other members (who have viewed the thread and haven't posted) have collectively well over a hundred years of experience collecting German helmets. (I leave Brian out has he is only 23 and still wet behind the ears ) As we have never seen an example like this raises many red flags. This points strongly to my suggestion that it is a modern fake. Could I be wrong??? Yes. That is why I said "in my HUMBLE opinion". Maybe it is a super rare experimental interwar example. But the experience and evidence we have at our disposal is currently leading us to a different conclusion.

    My 4th and last comment ("And "Nazi" is (was) a political party. The correct description would be a German WW2 Stalhelm. The German Army was not the Nazi party ") was just me trying to educate. As avid collectors of militaria we try to help others use the correct terminology. There are many reasons why it is helpful but at a very basic level, two are the most important.

    1) First, using the correct terminology will help when trying to purchase an item from someone else. This is not meant to be condescending to new collectors, it is meant to be helpful and educational, but if someone goes to a local show/military fair and go to a dealers table full of helmets and states "wow, that's a nice Nazi helmet" the dealer will immediately know they are dealing with someone with limited knowledge and could try to sell you a fake or jack up prices. In this hobby....Knowledge is power!!!! And that is what I was trying to help you out with.

    2) Second, and to me the most important. The Nazi's were evil, plain and simple. But not all Germans were Nazi's. The vast majority were patriotic Germans fighting for their home and family. Not for the Nazi party. It would be disrespectful to these men to equate them with the men (the Nazi's) who were in power and forced this war on the world.

    So......where does this leave us? First, as many members here can attest, I have more times then I can count, clearly stated to other members that written words can easily be misinterpreted. My statements above are to show you the intent behind each and every part of what I wrote. Hopefully you are now satisfied. We as a forum, eagerly welcome young collectors. We know that you are the next generation and do our best to teach and educate. That is what makes WRF so good. As David notes. We have no "cliques"



    David, Rene, Brian
    : Thank you for your support. It is highly appreciated.

    Regards,

    Michael
    Last edited by MAP; 10-13-2018 at 02:24 PM. Reason: added link
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  8. #17

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    Map is a good guy , the helmet is not WW2. Accept it and move on. Nobody for the rest cares about other helmets in this forum section because that is what forum sections are for. We go crazy for the authentic stuff here. If you are looking to start a collection in authentic German WW2 helmets you have the right crowd here to assist you.
    The guys in the ferrari forum also looked down on me when I posted my Mazda.

  9. #18

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    It is a modern fake. Possibly from China. But don't worry, we are all learning as we go.

  10. #19

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    Quote by Anderson View Post
    It is a modern fake. Possibly from China. But don't worry, we are all learning as we go.
    I agree from the looks of it I say it's one of the fakes from china and someone added the lugs to the vent holes, prob from a biker

  11. #20

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    Quote by WarHorse View Post
    Map,
    This is not a modern fake, if it was modern there would not be rust all over the liner and there would not be pitting in the shell of the helmet. Also you do not have to be so condescending when correcting someone on something.
    At the risk of repeating the valid points made by other members;

    This is not a modern fake, - Yes it is.

    If it was modern there would not be rust all over the liner and there would not be pitting in the shell of the helmet - Yes there would.

    Also you do not have to be so condescending - MAP wasn't.

    We all on occasion hear things we would rather not about items we saw fit to purchase and we all have a "box/drawer etc of shame". This is part of the learning process in the hobby and your "massive amount of research" should surely have stopped you buying this.

    When asking here for advice from members who by default one regards as likely to possess the requisite knowledge it is only polite to receive such advice with good grace and certainly without petulance.

    I have no idea of your collecting experience but you haven't been here long, welcome to the forum by the way, so take time to study the way we all interact with one another especially the more active members and you will soon get a feel for what is pretty much a virtual "gentlemens club".

    Nothing said by members in any of the posts above should cause you the slightest offence or to perceive any degree of condescension. There is no way to sugar coat the fact that this helmet is a very low order fake with no redeeming features.

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 10-13-2018 at 02:11 PM. Reason: typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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