Strange liner (czech?)

[Melf]

Hello, I would like more opinions on this size 64 liner which was in a czech CD late war M42 EF helmet.

It's definitely old and worn, when I took it off it was very dusty and clearly hadn't been taken out since the helmet was painted black. It has the czech chinstrap and leather string, but it's a german/german style liner unlike the post-war czech liners.

I have seen czech CD helmets with WW2 liners so that isn't strange, but this one has a few details which are odd for a german liner: it lacks the vertical holes in the liner band, finnish isn't very good and neither the leather or the band have maker markings (band looks polished also). The leather part is pig skin and looks alright, but on the "top" part you can see the contour was drawn in pencil (hand made? but it's cut too perfectly imo). Felt looks ok.


Do you know about german liners with these characteristics? Late war quality? Or early czech liner? Seems like too much effort for an old hand made replica.

[PotatoDigger]

Interesting, never seen that before, could take some more photos of the leather on the inside, does it have any ink stamps there? Also of the inner ring, I wonder how it is attached to the liner band, which looks to be made of aluminium.
Maybe leather and inner ring are original but I can't tell from these photos but if I remember correctly, Czech post war leathers ( the early ones not the 4 piece ones) actually have metal grommets on the top holes where the drawstring goes, can't see those here.
Luis

[Melf]

Thanks for your reply, I just separated the liner bands (will take pictures soon) and the inner band looks exactly the same as the outer band.

The pins attaching them are black painted and also present on the inner band holding the leather, which I didn't dare to remove (should I?) and which was very dusty in that area.

Also, next to the pin holes there are small stamped circles.

There are no ink stamps that I can see but yes a few black stains. As for the "grommets", they are made of the same leather.

[Schwerpunkt]

it is not correctly sewn leather. So not wartime leather.

[AndyM35]

Reminds me a little of the questionable liner in an M42 camo posted earlier this week.. This one is similar in that the rear seam is placed right in the centre between the tongues whereas most examples I have seen the seam runs along the edge of either tongue. Placed in the middle it would more easily tear. I have seen a couple like the one above but not many. Perhaps a new type of fake liner?

Camo helmet m42 for you to check out.

[PotatoDigger]

Well that would be a very trash version of a new fake liner, but I guess it's possible. I agree on the statement that most leathers had the stitching go up further on the leather, but there'S orignal leather pieces that do not have that, I think it's just down to how the leather was cut at the factory.
I once had a relic condition leather piece that ended in a similar spot to the leather pictured, but if Frank states the stitching is wrong, I'd say so, too.
Luis

[AndyM35]

Hi Luis,

As I said I have seen a few liners where the seam is in the centre but by the the vast majority have it running along the side of the tongue. As we know the standards of quality were dropping by the end of the war so perhaps some with the seam in the centre are an example of this. We would really need to study a large volume of liners from 35 to 45 to get a real appreciation unless any of the more experienced members can clarify. Perhaps Frank expand on the issues with the stitching.

Andrew

[Melf]

Hello and thanks again for the replies, I wouldn't worry about a new type of fake liner since this helmet was sold 20+ years ago in Spain.

I have now taken apart the leather from the inner band and hopefully can photograph everything tomorrow. I would be thankful if you could expand on what's wrong with the stitching.

[Kateri]

Hi Melf,I'm enjoying your helmet posts.
Your liner bands do look very shiny.
I have bought 2 from different sellers on Ebay recently to add to a ground-dug hkp and the Czech Fire helmet eventually.
Both have repro makers marks on the metal.
It is interesting that yours has none,even if the band is a 20 year old repro.
I wish I could add to the comments on the leather,but I have dubious stitching and possible bleaching issues on a helmet myself.
Looking forward to seeing the shell this liner was removed from.
I'm sure it looks at least as good as anything I've posted.

[Melf]

Hello, thanks, here are the new pictures. If you don't mind, I will post the shell this came from on your thread Kateri (here you can see it: Ex Civil M42)

All parts (except a few split pins not present in the picture):


Aluminium bands:


Leather part: