Marna Militaria - Top
Display your banner here
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

SS sword by Paul Muller

Article about: Dear fellow collectors, I have recently bought a (very) expensive Damast SS sword (made by Paull Muller) from a (in Belgium) well known antique dealer. I would like to know more (if anything

  1. #1

    Default SS sword by Paul Muller

    Dear fellow collectors,

    I have recently bought a (very) expensive Damast SS sword (made by Paull Muller) from a (in Belgium) well known antique dealer.
    I would like to know more (if anything is possible) about this weapon (including the possibility of a fake/fake components)
    All opinions and suggestions are welcome. I can make additional photos on request.
    I appreciate all advice. Thanking you in advance.

    Best regards,

    Stefan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  


  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement SS sword by Paul Muller
    Join Date
    Always
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default

    Do you have any provenance? The blade may be one made by Muller but may never have been presented. The story behind these blades is in the Biography of Jim Atwood, by Kenneth Alford, see P.107. Atwood met Paul Muller who showed him his collection of unissued damascus blades, SS daggers and sword. Atwood bought the lot except for a few swords Muller wanted to retain. Honor blades not yet fitted with hilts Atwood likely constructed in the US back in the 1960's. That's why I ask the provenance, who has owned this rare sword type?

  4. #3

    Default

    An "interesting" blade from trying to evaluate how it was made - but even aside from it, the sword not one I would think about for myself for multiple reasons. That said, it would be good to get some better high resolution images* with some of them also focused on that long crack-delamination on the motto side. Best Regards, Fred
    PS: In natural lighting if possible.

  5. #4

    Default

    Hi Stefan...glad you posted more photos here.
    1st piece of advice right off the bat...is NEVER purchase anything high end valued or you are unsure of or just because someones name in lights says its good. COAs are only worth the paper they are written on.

    Antique dealers wherever they are globally do not do what we do here on these forums...and its not just a break down study of details ...its to teach and also protect both the buyer and seller.

    I remember seeing damast etch samples of the ricasso and a short length of blade and the Muller logo seen in the photo appears to be one of them...but I have never seen this logo actually on the blade tang.
    Typically..with Mullers damast examples...are recessed etched intials PMD ...with the P being backwards.
    The Himmler signature ...seeing this on the ricasso is a first for me ...which also includes the bright gold raised lettering of the motto as well.

    What I see missing is the SS runes that should be flanking both sides of the motto ( Some advice of replies from some of the Swordsmen here would be appreciated. )

    Another observation is what looks to be a freshly ground tang for some reason...and this is where I agree with Fred that greater photos are necessary.
    There would be no reason to grind that out as these Muller blades were made perfectly and are highly coveted among SS sword collectors.

    Im seeing the remants of Pauls fathers intials Alexander Muller ...but only the letter M...a sword of this Magnitude should not be without the A+M intials....so not sure why if such a high quality sword ..the tang would be ground down.

    These are just some of my observations and should wait for more replies from some of the sword collectors here.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #5

    Default

    Photo #9 of the ricasso shows good fine detail around the damascus grain and it's looks like real damascus to me rather than the imitation etched damascus available with daggers. But a three quarter view of the blade spine would help to see of it matches. I agree the grinding (recent?) of the tang is a bit suspicious.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote by Anderson View Post
    Photo #9 of the ricasso shows good fine detail around the damascus grain and it's looks like real damascus to me rather than the imitation etched damascus available with daggers. But a three quarter view of the blade spine would help to see of it matches. I agree the grinding (recent?) of the tang is a bit suspicious.
    Likewise, but as not the first roughly comparable item that I've seen with issues some more really good photos will help in making a batter determination. That said, I am somewhat reminded of an old saying that was true of another sword blade that I had the opportunity to look at in the past: مدد کرو، میں ٹوٹ رہا ہوں۔ Not posted here, I am posting a thread starter picture of one area of interest. Best Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS sword by Paul Muller  

  8. #7

    Default

    I have some new photos (with normal daylight, and without flash) taken (zoom in and others more global). I do not dare to disassemble the hilt (i have no knowledge of it). The blade was bought from an old antiquair (official member of an association of recognized art experts, specialized in the research and valuation of art and antiques) who had it from a client/customer who bought it in France Alsace just after the war.
    I confess i know very little about the bladed weapons of the Third Reich and bought on good faith.
    But i am now interested to learn more and proceed with more caution. Can you advise on a first (and second) reading about this subject? Thanking you in advance and appreciating all your feedback.

    Best regards,
    Stefan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  

    SS sword by Paul Muller  

  9. #8

    Default

    Some conversation on this sword has gone on in the background, some don't want to comment on forum but in the interest of research and scholarship some comment should be made. In brief the concerns around this sword involve it's lack of wartime provenance. It is know that Paul Muller continued making damast blades post WW2, probably into the 1950's. This blade is genuine damast, and likely to have been made by Muller, the question revolves around when, pre 1945 or post 1945. And no one today can say for sure. A possibility is that the sword has been assembled post WW2 using a Muller blade. It's known Jim Atwood visited Muller in about 1962 at his home at Wuppertal-Croneburg (see Atwood biography by Kenneth Alford). Alford records Muller still had at the time a workshop and forge and produced a wooden chest full of over 100 damascus sword and dagger blades, which Atwood bought. It's possible this blade came from that box.
    A second issue that would support post war assembly is that the hilt assembly doesn't have the typical Dachau fittings, in the ferrule and D guard.
    So a likely Paul Muller blade, but no certainty around when he made it and some evidence that post war assembly is likely. A possible Jim Atwood link would swing suspicion in that direction as it was known he assembled parts daggers in the 1960's.

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote by Anderson View Post
    Some conversation on this sword has gone on in the background, some don't want to comment on forum but in the interest of research and scholarship some comment should be made. In brief the concerns around this sword involve it's lack of wartime provenance. It is know that Paul Muller continued making damast blades post WW2, probably into the 1950's. This blade is genuine damast, and likely to have been made by Muller, the question revolves around when, pre 1945 or post 1945. And no one today can say for sure. A possibility is that the sword has been assembled post WW2 using a Muller blade. It's known Jim Atwood visited Muller in about 1962 at his home at Wuppertal-Croneburg (see Atwood biography by Kenneth Alford). Alford records Muller still had at the time a workshop and forge and produced a wooden chest full of over 100 damascus sword and dagger blades, which Atwood bought. It's possible this blade came from that box.
    A second issue that would support post war assembly is that the hilt assembly doesn't have the typical Dachau fittings, in the ferrule and D guard.
    So a likely Paul Muller blade, but no certainty around when he made it and some evidence that post war assembly is likely. A possible Jim Atwood link would swing suspicion in that direction as it was known he assembled parts daggers in the 1960's.
    In conversations with Damascus specialists and one or more actual makers of Damascus blades etc. some other interesting information has come to light which I will summarize. Müller was not the TR period maker of anyting other than the Damascus sword blades that were made for Himmler - the rest being subcontracted. When he passed others continued to make blades using his equipment (that included stamps). The metallurgy of the blades should be scientifically analyzed because some non-German sources have made reproductions that can be of good quality (or very poor) that do not conform to known period blades in their physical composition (that can also sometimes be detected by close examination). Best Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS sword by Paul Muller  

  11. #10

    Default

    Forgive me my almost non existent knowledge. I've should have better researched my purchase. That said, i have learned a lot by posting here on this forum and hope to continue this in the future. I've added two photos of markings on the hilt and scabbard (I never paid any attention to it until now and they are not good visible, one under the 'cross guard protection' and one with scratches on the scabbard. Is there any meaning/reference to this?
    A great thanks for all who have answered and discussed this sword, you have my gratitude.
    Best regards,
    Stefan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS sword by Paul Muller   SS sword by Paul Muller  


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 12-08-2020, 04:33 PM
  2. Paul Weyersberg Heer Sword

    In Swords of The German Reich & Austria
    08-26-2017, 02:33 PM
  3. Paul Weyersberg & Co triple etched Lionshead TR sword

    In Swords of The German Reich & Austria
    01-08-2017, 12:32 AM
  4. 09-01-2012, 04:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Militaria Romandie - Down
Display your banner here