Is This a Known Canteen Ring Type?

[DerFunker]

Hi, friends. I've been doing some digging regarding this particular ring, and I've found a few examples of similar rings, and some early TR era paper advertisements that show a very similar ring, but not with identical details. Is this, to anyone, a "known" pattern of canteen ring, or have you seen one before? Looks convincing enough, and I don't see any rough bits that might indicate casting, and the details seem sharp... no other marks on the inner band other than the "835"... what do you think?

[SpitfireVb]

That is a nice-looking ring. To be honest, I don't recall having seen this type of skull along with the oak leaves on the shank before but there were so many different variants of Totenkopfringe. Few collectors will have seen them all let alone remember them exactly. The ring is nicely worn and I see no obvious signs of casting, as you noted; the hallmark looks stamped to me. I reckon this one has a good chance of being period but I'd like to see another of the same pattern. It might also be helpful to see the ring's profile from the top. Does the band taper nicely towards the rear or is it uniformly thick? Is the interior of the band polished and smooth? Based on the last photo, it looks like it is. Finally, the back of the skull: is it solid or hollow?

[DerFunker]

Thanks again for having a look and taking the time to comment! Hard to tell if the band tapers like one would like to see. I may just go ahead and pick this one up to get it in hand since there's a solid return policy. The back, however, isn't hollow as often seen, but solid. The well defined detail at the base of the skull where it meets the ring makes me wonder if this is a two piece ring with a soldered on skull, or maybe riveted with a covered rivet. May I have your thoughts? Many thanks, yet again!

-DF

[SpitfireVb]

Doh! There was already a photo of the skull's back. Maybe I should pay more attention!

I also wondered if it could be a two-piece construction although this would not usually be typical of this type of ring. If it is, the skull could be soldered or fixed with a rivet, the hole being then filled with solder and polished smooth.

If it doesn't cost the earth and there is a good return policy, I would chance it. Once you have it in possession, it might be easier to see if it is a two-piece. Good luck!

[SpitfireVb]

You know, the more I look at this ring, the more I wonder about its authenticity. Call me obsessive! As mentioned, it's a great-looking ring and there are no obvious signs of casting. Nevertheless, the blackening of the whole piece seems excessive to me; this may hide a few sins.

Why, for example, is there so much blackening on the skull face, even on the forehead? The forehead is the most prominent part of the ring and should, accordingly, be shiny and smooth. Even on the shank, there is a lot of blackening in and around the oak leaves. Why? Is this an attempt at artificial ageing? It might also be tarnishing but it still seems like a lot.

As noted, I have never seen this pattern with the skull and the oak leaves. I wonder if any other Forum member can comment or, even better, show the same pattern of ring...

[DerFunker]

Thanks for the comments, and for the keen eye! I think it's a great looking ring, and I do hope we can get a better assessment once I have it in hand. That being said, there is a no-questions-asked return policy if I'm not satisfied with the purchase, and I've dealt with the seller before, so I went ahead and nabbed this one. Once it arrives in the 'States from Germany in a couple of weeks (give or take) I'll take some detailed shots in good lighting... fingers crossed!

[DerFunker]

The forehead is the most prominent part of the ring and should, accordingly, be shiny and smooth.

I think this might be the only observation I have an answer for based on the pics. The forehead is actaully recessed a bit, and the eye/cheek bones, nose and teeth seem to protrude more, and these show the most wear. Not much to indicate authenticity, but the wear makes a little more sense looking at it closely.

I'm cautiously optimistic on this one... let's see how it turns out!

[SpitfireVb]

This is a good discussion. Goes to show that it's sometimes hard to be sure about a ring, especially a nice one like this. I hope that one or more of the other guys will chime in. They seem to have disappeared!

I guess my biggest concern with the posted ring is that I have never seen this pattern of skull with those oak leaves. I had a look through the skull rings on three different fora and I didn’t see one like it.

For comparison, here’s a common, well-known skull and leaves. It's from a post on GDC and is an authentic Third Reich ring. The photo of the 835 mark is on another ring of the same pattern but they’re both good. The only ring I could find that has similar leaves to yours on the shank has a jawless ‘Panzer’ skull… and it's a crude fake.

For what it’s worth, there are also a couple of comments too about how some of the ‘super fakes’ do not have ‘the correct type of blackening’.

Anyway, the one below is good. Nice ring too.