Mint 1940. dated Gymnasterka ...

[Litzmannstadt]

The M35/41 (or simplified M35 as often called ) have open/visible buttons ( not hide like M35). Nothing strange here. Had M29 jacket and M35/41 and visible buttons was something normal in those jackets.

[bourguignotte]

Hello,

Yes it is simplified with the collar wit or without atribute, the kaki butons but it isn't sepcified the front buton become visible?
As well why changing the Pocket in a more complex shape?

Bruno

[Boycie]

Exposed buttons are common.

Try as I might, I have yet to find a period photo of a Gym with clipped corners on the pockets.

[NATJER]

Nice observation. The color photo and the Espenlaub Gym mentioned in Post #10 have "clipped" pockets. I have also posted a picture of the original 1939 pattern that makes an allowance for the clipped pocket variation. There also appears to be a rounded pocket version as well. There also appears to be a special post 1935 NKVD pattern gym I am looking into. Many of the troops of the NKVD 10th Rifle Division at Stalingrad wore this type of simplified gym.

The third picture below shows two NKVD troopers wearing open faced tunic with, as it looks to me, the same ribbed variegated cotton twill weave. This type of fabric appears to be used in the Gym that was used to start this thread.

Maybe I will start a new thread once I find more info on this topic. I don't want to hijack this thread.

[Boycie]

I note that theoretically clipped or rounded corners are not strictly against regulations but i've yet to see a period photo of clipped ones that satisfy my scepticism. (Rounded - yes but rare)

I have looked, and looked, and looked...

Post War VOKhR Tunics did feature them on both green and blue tunics (although their pockets appear longer than Army ones).

You are right though, this should be on the Gymnasterka pocket thread really.

[bourguignotte]

Thanks Natjer and Boycie for these interesting information.

Natjer presented a similar blue gym from the Militia from the Espenlaub site.
the one you present are for VOKhR.
Can we imagine that those type of Pockets may be for non military corps? This would be a way to distinguish them event if they all wear very similar uniforms?

Best
Bruno

[Boycie]

Bruno. It's difficult to say.

VOKhR tunics were produced with the fall collars long after the war, whilst the Armed Forces had 1943 standing types so there would be no need for differentiation.

As for the Espenlaub example, I'd be keen to see period pictures of pre-1943 Militsia in such tunics with clipped corner pockets in order to establish that both patterns were produced concurrently.

[bourguignotte]

Hi Boycie,
No such photo on my side.
As of post war gym looking like M35, I know there is the M55 tropical gym and also the costruction troops with Collar and Pocket like on the M43. At least on the 58 regulation.
I do not know what they had before
Complex topic

Bruno

[NATJER]

Nice observations and a very enlightening conversation. I have learned a lot and can understand the reason for skepticism with fellow gym enthusiasts. I am not a skeptic because of the allowances for "clipped" pockets are provided in the original pattern. Although the original pattern is not definitive, it is important because it does not preclude the use of "clipped" pockets in pre-war gyms. In addition there is sufficient photographic evidence of accepted original items in collections today.

Clearly the M40 and the 1942 dated gym share more features with each other, than a VOKhR Tunic. IMO the VOKhR Tunics are of a completely different pattern, and share few features commonly found in a M29, M31 or M35 gym. The olive twill fabric is unique to wartime and pre-war Soviet tunics. As noted, the VOKhR Tunics have a shorter hem and the pockets are of a different rectangular (vice square) shape.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. Maybe we can agree to disagree on the particular details of this discussion, and the topic of gym pocket geometry in general? I will follow up in the the pocket thread at a later date. This topic has been a entertaining distraction during the lock-down.

[bourguignotte]

Hello Natjer,

No issue or desagreement. Just good and interesting questions. Still so many things to discover.

Best

Bruno