WWII HBT 2nd pattern camo trousers

[camotexan]

I purchased these recently from a dealer who represented this as WW2 HBT 2nd Pattern Camo trousers. The trousers appear to have the HBT weave in the cotton material, the camo pattern is only printed on one side of the trousers, there are no labels of any kind inside or in the pockets or stampings, there are five metal tack on buttons with the 13 stars that were first used during WW2, the buttons are located one in the front, two on the pleated cargo pockets, and two in the back to adjust the waist. The trousers do not have any pockets except the cargo pockets like 2nd pattern HBT and this not a button fly, but has a zipper. The zipper is made by Waldes Made In USA (marked). The zipper is brass in color with tan colored material. The back of the trousers appear to have been taken in because they were two big for the previous owner. I have not seen any 2nd pattern HBTs in camo or with a zipper so I am thinking these are WW2, but possibly Vietnam War era ARVN advisor King Kard pattern or duck hunter pattern camo trousers or was this a WW2 US Army jungle coverall suit that has been cut down and made into pants. I have no history from the dealer other than this was obtained from a vet's estate who served from WW2 to the mid-1970s in the US Army. Let me know what you think.

[Jerry B]

Hi and welcome to the forum, but you need to spend some time looking at the layout of the forum and post your question in the correct section, ie the western allies uniform section.

[Adrian Stevenson]

I would say these are post war.

Cheers, Ade.

[camotexan]

Hello,

I saw an OD HBT trouser set just like these with the same pleated cargo pocket down the center on another militaria forum with a QM label indicating a date of 1943. I also saw a set exactly like my set that was sold on Ebay a couple months ago by a camo dealer from Thailand who claim they were earlier US Army WW2 M1943 HBT or Vietnam ARVN or US Army ARVN advisor. One of the camo designs on this King Kard/duck hunter style camo is a "pac-man" design like from the 1980s video game. I am trying to locate this on a similar set of camo to date this item. The Waldes zippers date from the 1930s to 1960s, but this one appears to have a 1940s era design. Maybe, this was used by the French in Indochina post WW2 from US material stock or surplus. Any thoughts? Thanks for your response.

Regards,

Jaime

[Mark K]

I must agree with Adrian on this one I do believe these to be post war commercially-produced from the 1960's (Beogam), as no US military equivalent was available at the time. These were based on the original US M1942 jungle spot camouflage pattern, light weight hunting uniforms made by American and Asian retail companies - frequently nicknamed "duck hunter"and were obtained privately by unit commanders and also supplied to indigenous units as part of the CIA-sponsored CIDG program. Commercial duck hunter spot pattern is generally a four or five-color dappled design of multi-sized brown, green & tan spots on khaki, tan, or pale green background. Between 1961 and 1966-7, significant numbers of these commercially available uniforms were worn by US military personnel. and used in country early on in the vietnam war,

Regards Mark K

[reneblacky]

Deffo post war, US Army WW2 duck camo is reversible - even with the overalls. I'm leaning towards it being a Vietnam beogam variant
Here's an Army pair I've previously post here - US Army Trousers HBT Camouflage

[Mark K]

As a point of interest large stocks of surplus American jungle camouflage uniforms, printed in the reversible M1942 spot pattern, were donated to the French fighting in Indochina, and many of these saw service with Vietnamese airborne units as well.

Regards Mark K

[reneblacky]

As a point of interest large stocks of surplus American jungle camouflage uniforms, printed in the reversible M1942 spot pattern, were donated to the French fighting in Indochina, and many of these saw service with Vietnamese airborne units as well.

Regards Mark K

Also to the Dutch army in Indonesia, one of my Uncles was issued with the overalls

[camotexan]

Hello,

Any idea on value? This set does not have any holes or rips and is slightly faded. Thank you for the information.

[AmericanKraut]

As much as the next guy is willing to pay, definitely not in the same area as WWII camo pants though