Schalburg Korp and perhaps something else?

[David North]

Here are images of what I think is an interesting buckle and I wonder what the correct designation and description is?

There is an immediate association with Schalburg Korp, although some suggest Deutscher Pfadfinder and early NSDAP supporters. If my memory serves me correctly, I think that one of the reference books even has an image of an early SS man wearing a similar buckle!

I have seen this roundel set on different types of brass boxes, rather than a "common" style of box.

In addition, I have seen the roundel positioned in two ways. One with the swastika arms as vertical and horizontal and one, where the swastika arms are set at roughly 45 degrees. I wonder if there is some significance by this?

As always, any comments would be welcome.

Regards,

David

[David North]

Reverse

[Redgemak]

David

as there is no makers or rzm mark, I think it's a custom made item.
could also belong to a "Wiking" or "Nordland" member.

Jean

[aechols83]

Interesting buckle, David. I don't know much about these yet but I agree it looks like an enlisted Schalburg Korps buckle (minus the inscription "Troskab vor Aere".) It has been suggested elsewhere that the rotated roundel/45 degree angle sunwheel swastika you are referring to was worn by the service guard of the Danish volunteers. I agree it could be custom made or a private purchase and I don't think it would have had an RZM mark as I'm pretty sure it pre-dates the RZM (by the fact that the prongs are brazed to the pin shroud?)

I'll be curious to learn more about this buckle and its origins!
Best,
Adam

[David North]

Dear Jean and Adam

I am quite sure that the buckle that I originally posted dates from the 1930's, is pre RZM and manufactured, (the roundel at least) and is by one of the so called major buckle producers.

It is of course, all down to detail.

The "sun wheel" swastika was not of course the prerogative of the Schalburg Korp and many other right wing groups during the 1920's, used this emotive symbol.

I am intrigued that in Jack Angolia's second edition tome that there is a super image of a "sun wheel" swastika buckle being worn by an SS man. Having said that and in response to a question by Jean, I am sure that these sun wheel emblem buckles were manufactured by the numerous "cottage industries" within the 1920's and I have attached a possible example.

We really need close up detail which alas, I think will never be available.

Regards,

David

[David North]

1

[David North]

2

[aechols83]

If the Danish Germanic-SS/Schalburg Korps was formed in 1943, then it makes sense that this pre-RZM buckle, which also does not have the inscription, is not a Schalburg buckle. Pre-RZM I was thinking (for both buckles) as the prongs are brazed to the pin shrouds and as far as I have learned thus far I think this is pre-RZM construction. Just curious...what would identify/date the roundel as pre-RZM? Also, is there a way of identifying this as possibly made by one of the larger firms like Assmann?

The photo of the uniformed man you have posted is very interesting, David. It appears to be a VERY similar buckle to the one originally posted as far as the size/shape of the roundel and what looks like perhaps a silver wash as well with no inscription. Maybe it's just my eyes, but does it appear to anyone else that both roundels are rotated very slightly to the viewer's left? The photo would seem very convincing evidence that the first is an early SS or NSDAP supporters type buckle. I believe that pre-RZM and at this time regulations weren't as strict and so perhaps it's an early cottage industry/custom/private purchase SS/NSDAP buckle being worn with an early SS uniform? I suppose all could maybe be said for the second buckle posted as well.

Best,
Adam

[David North]

You have "hit the nail on the head" Adam

Despite what some say and have written, I have never for one moment thought that this very rare Sun Wheel swastika buckle has any connection whatsoever with the Schalburg Korp.

In my opinion, it is a professionally produced buckle from the mid to late 1920's, with and so like many others, an unidentified purpose.

Whether it be right wing youth, NSDAP sympathiser or something else from the era, I just do not know. What I do know is that it is not Schalburg Korp related and I also suspect that there is no relevance whatsoever toward the positioning of the roundel to display the swastika in a particular way.

Regards,

David

[Ben Evans]

Chaps, this is a very interesting thread and opening my eyes about the very roots and rise of the Third Reich. Do we know when the "SA" buckle as we know was officially used? I have been trying to read up and find out but have stumbled on the what for me is a very interesting read. On one point apparently reading into the history the men used to protect the Hofbrauhaus meetings were given the title Saalschutz Abteilung (hall defence detachment) or the Ordnertruppen. It is said that to avoid trouble with the government the group was then renamed Turn-und Sportabteilung. Now this is the bit that excites me, did at this period the now early SA start to use the Tunnerbund buckle as part of a basic uniform or am I barking completely up the wrong tree? The uniformed branch of the SA I believe formed in 1921? So to answer my question from earlier is that did the SA buckle first appear at that time? If the SS was first formed in 1925 when did they actually introduce the "SS" buckle as we know it now? Could the buckle you have shown David be then be an early form of SS buckle is that what you believe David? At that time of reorganising did they split themselves into smaller Abteilungs and each one have a different belt buckle as ID. Sorry to bore you chaps with this but the more I read into it the more intrigued I become. I never realised how in depth the "SA" buckle is. Maybe JP could give us some info on the early foundation of the SS and when the buckle was first introduced.