Lee Enfields still in use

[MG42UK]

An interesting article in yesterday's Sunday Times on the fact that Lee Enfields (and other WW2 weapons) are still in widespread use in the rest of the world:

Britain’s 100-year-old Lee-Enfield rifle is still a big shot in the world’s conflict zones | World | The Sunday Times

Nothing most people in here don't already know, but an interesting read (if you have a subscription)....

[vegetius]

My 1916 SMLE and 1943 No4 both get used regularly!

[Watchdog]

There are plenty out there possibly rivalling the proliferance of the Kalashnikov series and for some purposes they are perfectly adequate weapons of superior quality.

However, as a countepoise check this out;

Darra Adam Khel: The Village of Illegal Gun Manufacturers | Amusing Planet



Would you even consider trusting one of these? Don't think I would

Regards

Mark

[lithgow]

Depends on what you define as 'Service Use'-many military/paramilitary forces still use WW2 rifles for ceremonial parades as modern weapons are too short or oddly shaped with add on sights/lights/laser pointers etc to look good for drill at arms. The US multi service honour guard, most recently seen at the Presidential inauguration packs a wide variety of long arms including Springfield M1903s, M1 Garands, M14s all at the same time!
As far as actual shooting goes, the main problem is getting hold of reliable ammo at a reasonable price and the fact that assorted assault rifles are so readily available-the Indian paramilitary police took the decision to finally retire their assorted Lee Enfields in the wake of the Bombay terrorist attack of over a decade ago as they realised that a squaddie with an SMLE and 5 rounds was no possible match for someone with an AK47 and a dozen mags.

[Adravor]

Reminds me of the story that at the start of the Syrian Civil war the Rebels captured an Depot with 5.000 Original Stg44´s that East Germany had sold them after they faded out of service. These guns also saw a lot of service... until the ammunition ran out and they eventually faded out of the conflict again. Makes you think that now a few thousand useless Stg44´s lie arround somewhere in the Ruins of Syria...

[AZPhil]

There are plenty out there possibly rivalling the proliferance of the Kalashnikov series and for some purposes they are perfectly adequate weapons of superior quality.

However, as a countepoise check this out;

Darra Adam Khel: The Village of Illegal Gun Manufacturers | Amusing Planet



Would you even consider trusting one of these? Don't think I would

Regards

Mark

I remember YEARS ago reading a Soldier of Fortune magazine and they compared one of the Khyber pass Enfield's to the issued version.
It was an eye opener for me and showed the talent of the basic black smith turning these out.
It looked good and it was hard to tell which was which,

Semper Fi
Phil

[Eagle mtn]

I brought back what MIGHT be a Khyber Pass Mauser from Afghanistan. It's only a barreled receiver. I had the hopes of putting together a wall-hanger rifle, but I cant get any actual manufactured mauser parts to fit it!

[Watchdog]

I brought back what MIGHT be a Khyber Pass Mauser from Afghanistan. It's only a barreled receiver. I had the hopes of putting together a wall-hanger rifle, but I cant get any actual manufactured mauser parts to fit it!

That is a major issue with these. Because they are handmade without normal manufacturing tolerances being observed the parts are not interchangeable and replacements cannot be obtained. If a part is broken or missing the whole weapon is useless (if it were ever actually useful).

Even worse is the fact that neither weapons grade materials nor industrial processes such as correct heat treatment are used. For instance where a manufactured barrel is forged in heavy machinery these are made out of something like an old railway line or worse just a chunk of mild steel, turned on a small lathe and bored through. These things do make good "wall hangers" but otherwise are deathtraps.

As Phil says they are hard to tell from the real thing with the naked eye but a gunsmith should tell almost immediately as would any one with a set of manufacturing drawings (or another genuine gun) and a micrometer!

It's somewhat ironic but if they were to make copies of the Sten gun for instance these are so simple (agricultural even) and operate at much lower stress levels than a big rifle or machine gun that they would be much safer but not as macho to the tribal warrior! In fact during the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland a few homemade "Sten" type weapons were turned out in (REDACTED ) workshops in Belfast

You would probably never convince a tribesman I suppose but thankfully these tend not to travel much beyond the region!

Sorry we seem to have strayed from the original subject of the thread and I only mentioned this as a kind of counterpoise or aside to the starting pont but it does seem to overlap a little and I hope it is an interesting diversion at least

Regards

Mark

[HARRY THE MOLE]

Depends on what you define as 'Service Use'-many military/paramilitary forces still use WW2 rifles for ceremonial parades as modern weapons are too short or oddly shaped with add on sights/lights/laser pointers etc to look good for drill at arms. The US multi service honour guard, most recently seen at the Presidential inauguration packs a wide variety of long arms including Springfield M1903s, M1 Garands, M14s all at the same time!
As far as actual shooting goes, the main problem is getting hold of reliable ammo at a reasonable price and the fact that assorted assault rifles are so readily available-the Indian paramilitary police took the decision to finally retire their assorted Lee Enfields in the wake of the Bombay terrorist attack of over a decade ago as they realised that a squaddie with an SMLE and 5 rounds was no possible match for someone with an AK47 and a dozen mags.

An SMLE with only five rds? You might have a point when it comes to the urban battlefield of built up areas, but out in the open when firing over extended ranges - a suitable situation for any Lee Enfield - the bolt action rifle with its 10 rd magazine and highly trained soldier using it would give a damned good account of himself against anyone armed with an AK. The effective range of an AK is quoted as 380 meters, but its intermediate cartridge means that its accuracy is below that. Whereas the Lee Enfield fires a full sized round and is accurate up to at least 1,000 meters in the right hands. Comparisons are meaningless unless you take into account how the weapon will be used.

[Watchdog]

An SMLE with only five rds? You might have a point when it comes to the urban battlefield of built up areas, but out in the open when firing over extended ranges - a suitable situation for any Lee Enfield - the bolt action rifle with its 10 rd magazine and highly trained soldier using it would give a damned good account of himself against anyone armed with an AK. The effective range of an AK is quoted as 380 meters, but its intermediate cartridge means that its accuracy is below that. Whereas the Lee Enfield fires a full sized round and is accurate up to at least 1,000 meters in the right hands. Comparisons are meaningless unless you take into account how the weapon will be used.

And of course, when the German troops first experienced the British "Mad minute" tactic during WWI they understandably thought that the British were using a disproprtionately high number of machine guns per unit.

Furthermore, consider the use in recent times of Enfield rifles by Afghan tribesmen for sniping over iron sights at ranges considered infeasible by todays soldiers trained for the 300m "Battle shot"

Regards

Mark