Steyr Hahn M1912

[zoobar]

Wanted to post this Austro-hungarian handgun for a while, managed to aquire 3 of them and i just adore the design and robustness, definitely one of my favorite and one of the best handguns in WW1.
Handguns are heavily used and not in perfect condition, but that just adds to their story.




First one, year of production 1917, regular Steyr with military acceptance marks.




This one has been rechambered by German army for 9mm Parabellum, there is 08 marking on the left side of slide to indicate adoption date of a cartridge and all sorts of waffenamt marks, even on the barrel. Ammo in the clip is deactivated.
It is 1918 producion, but has 1919 military acceptance marks. Now some odd markings apper here, those are czechoslovakian marks that have been stamped over austrian ones(Wn-19 is still visible).
So i think this handgun has seen very short or no usage in Austro-hungarian military, after 1919 used by Czechoslovakia and then in 1938 German army captures it and converts it to 9mm Parabellum.






This prewar one troubles me, it isn't chilean or romanian, can't be bavarian because of the year and it is not civilian. Also military acceptance marks are not there and has some little marks(M in circle on the slide and S in circle beneath the barrel). Only this one has serial number on bottom of handgrip. Could be one of the cancelled ones from romanian contract, but i just dont know. If anybody has some idea about it, feel free to comment.

[AndyB]

The middle piece was fullended in 1919 most real even it have a 1918 on slide, is possible it was remains of 1918 production, Czechoslovak republic ordered 1919 a small bunch of pistols from Austria, so the Wn no eagle 1919 is in this case a quality stamp and doesnt mean it was used by austrian army, CRS proof is for property of Czechoslovak Republic, and S lion 5 is for inventory of divisional depot nr.5 of Ceske Budejovice. Post 1938 i assume the pistol was reworked to 9Para , commerzial Nitro E/N proofed , 08 stamped and proofed for german police E/L.

[vegetius]

As part of my PhD, I have a single 9X23 cartridge case fired from a Steyr Hahn. However, this one is from a Repetierpistole M1912/P16. The markings on it all indicate it being fired from an open bolt weapon, but the interesting part is that it was found in a firmly dated piece of stratigraphy that is 1916. I am taking a Repetierpistole M1912/P16 out to test fire it, and do a cartridge case analysis on the brass, it is to confirm the theory but only confirmation as several of us, 'experts' all agree that the assessment is correct, so the comparison is hopefully just to prove the point.
As these were only issued to Sturmtruppen which supposedly do not exist in 1916 it is an interesting question as to why it is there and who was armed with it.
Zoobar, if you know of any other provable reason why that might be there then I would love to know?

Regards,
R

[AndyB]

I have read a article a twenty five years ago that the M1912/16 were used mainly by observers of flying units, persons sitting behind the pilot, for Sturmtrupps it was not the best choice as the magazine was emptied very quickly, and the loading was problematic in trenches. Sturmtrupp used M95Stutzen, german MP18 or other weapons.

[vegetius]

I have read a article a twenty five years ago that the M1912/16 were used mainly by observers of flying units, persons sitting behind the pilot, for Sturmtrupps it was not the best choice as the magazine was emptied very quickly, and the loading was problematic in trenches. Sturmtrupp used M95Stutzen, german MP18 or other weapons.

I have a record of a number of thousand being purchased for Sturmtruppen use in 1917/18 which is why that came to mind. The location this was found was in a trench system near Ypres that was overrun on 9 Jun 1916 so not a location that an Observer might be expected to be in. As for the M95Stutzen, german MP18 they were definitely used by sturmtruppen but wrong calibre for this problem, (even though the MP18 was in 9X23 in the model 28 manufactured during the 1920's which is far too late).
Let me re-word it then:
I have a 9X23 cartridge case fired from an open bolt, (automatic) weapon. It was definitely fired in 1916 as it is firmly dated in a secure archaeological context. It was in a first line German fighting trench quite close to a concrete bunker and located just off the Messine Ridge in Belgium. Who could have been using a weapon of this type at that time?

[AndyB]

Steyr M.1912/P16 machine-pistol
There are many sources, but i assume still some errors there, in wiki is mentioned a 960 pcs made.

[vegetius]

Steyr M.1912/P16 machine-pistol
There are many sources, but i assume still some errors there, in wiki is mentioned a 960 pcs made.

Thank you, an interesting article but again no answer to the question I have. Maybe it is a question that has no answer, I shall continue to dig, I'm in Vienna sometime soon talking to my counterparts there so I think a quick dive into their archives is in order.
I know of two M12/P16's and one I can fire, the only problem is getting the ammunition as I will have to persuade the firm that they want to buy a couple of hundred for some purpose!

R

[AndyB]

You should look for Schuyi /Moetz books about austrian pistols, there is all written probably.
Die Weiterentwicklung der Selbstladepistole 1 - Stohr Buchshop

[zoobar]

Thank You very much for this info, i really did not know what all of the markings mean. I noticed there is no eagle on Wn-19, just didnt know why, and S lion mark compares to CZ vz.27 pistol marking. Marking 5 is also interesting, now i know where handgun was kept.
German marks are well known by now, but czech ones gave me trouble.

Noticed this today, i think slide is from another handgun. Number on the slide, 6619y, second 6 has been stamped over something( maybe number 1), 1 has been stamped over 9 ( this is seen on 5th picture), and Y is not strait or in line with numbers like on frame( this seems to be minor mistake in stamping, and Y series is correct for 1918 handgun)
This i think is normal because germans replaced it after rework to 9 Parabellum.

[Garandy]

I had 2 E/L police in 9MM rework