French Army Training exercise helmet

[James C]

[Composite]

James...is this a new helmet (to us) or is it an F1, ‘51 or other hybrid French lid. I’m always interested when the words Training Helmet appear, particularly bearing in mind all those M88 which those words hide. Is this a genuine steel helmet that isn’t an established French lid designed JUST for training?

[Watchdog]

I'm always intrigued by the expression "traing helmet" as well. It always seems a very odd concept to me in the context of the need for training to be realistic. What would be the value of training with something that was not exactly the same as far as human perception goes, as the item that would be actually used in combat?

If it were the same shape, weight etc but just made in a cheaper material without the specified level of ballistic protection I could understand that because to the human senses there would be no difference. It would simply be cheaper and for training purposes the level of ballistic protection is irrelevant. However, if the purpose is to make it lighter, say and therefore more comfortable perhaps then the training value is reduced. The idea of wearing training shoes instead of combat boots is laughable right?

Of course this logic does not extend to the use of blank ammunition and pyrotechnics because killing ones own troops in training is somewhat counterproductive and tends to be frowned upon As the saying goes "train hard, fight easy" Or, am I missing the point here?

I am really interested now

Regards

Mark

[James C]

Thanks Ade It's an M51 liner which has been paired up with the F1 m78 liner /chinstrap with what looks to be a textured Cork painted finish to produce a lightweight training exercise helmet used by as far as i know an officer in the french army and used sometime in the 1980's whether a one example off or common practice at the time i am unsure but it would be modified to give the impression of the steel m78 but a more comfortable version ,I have since learned that this example has featured in the book "French military helmets of the 20th century" volume 2 By Roland Hennequin:" although that is the English Translation and might be better known by it's French Title .
Inside the liner i found an old receipt dating back to 1997 before the currency change showing a price of 250 French Franc ,I have since learned the Author has sadly passed away

[Greg Pickersgill]

This is an interesting thing. The general shape of the helmet and all of the fitments are clearly similar or identical to an F1. MPMP is a well known French manufacturer - making quantities of the mle51 - but not, as far as I can tell anyway, involved in production of the F1 of any series. And that date - that's almost before the F1 programme started, never mind went into production.

What I am particularly interested in is the liner/strap rivets (which are typical of an F1ser1). That lower set third one on the side isn't though - what is it for, what's on the other side of it? aAso no rimming to the shell. Unusual for an F1 of any series. there's something funny going on here. I almost entertain idea of a mle51 shell cut down and fitted with F1 rig - but not for long.

Aggrevating that Hennequin Tome 3 which would cover this period has not yet appeared. and may never, of course.

I'd almost say this was a very early test F1.

(EDIT - based on what James said while I was writing the above, I find I am sort of slightly maybe half right. It just never occurred to me it was a liner rather and a shell-proper. )

[Watchdog]

So, "training shoes" it is then!

Regards

Mark

[James C]

Many thanks for your thoughts Mark as i always appreciate your comments and also to you Greg ,when i first spotted this piece i didn't know what to make of it and unsure if it was an experimental F1 or a hybrid of some sort but i must admit got excited when i saw the date stamp and on closer inspection realised it was in fact a liner from the earlier two part model ,from a distance this would undoubtedly work well to give the F1 appearance and only glad this example was left as intended from a purist point of view as had there been a cover fitted to obscure the bolt placements it might of been lost forever and sat on a shelf someplace simply known to the custodian as an F1 M78 which begs the question how many more examples might well be out there waiting to be discovered .As for the F1 liner the threaded bolt /nut fixtures line up perfectly to the m51 shell liner placements without any modification needed whatsoever which i thought was interesting so maybe the m51 had more of an influence of the design of the F1 than we think,.The rear chinstrap mount has been riveted so it is permanently fixed while the rest using threaded bolts and nuts found from the early F1 .I am sure i have a removable liner fitted to one of my Gendarmerie Mle 51's but would have to double check that as most of my army issue Mle 51's have riveted liners

[Composite]

So could it be a one-off, made for/by an Officer type to LOOK the part but actually be comfortable......rather than a mass produced item for “the army” when training?

It’s the “Training” bit I struggle with........but “Parade” or similar????

[James C]

The small receipt shows the helmet designation as a Casque d' exercise , parade use could also be a possibility Ade so appreciate your thoughts here is this example in the book

[Composite]

well, if it's in a book..... :-)

I'm sure our friends from World War Helmets will be along shortly and fill in any blanks....after all, they're French.......whatever it is, it's kinda nice!