Need Help, Belgian M1 clone
Hello,
I bought this helmet a couple weeks ago. It was sold to me as a helmet of the Luxembourg army. I have found out that is was actually used by the Belgian Police in the county Brabant. The problem is that i can't find out what the type of helmet is. The liner is a Belgian M51 Lemior liner. But i don't know the type of the shell. The shell doen't have a rim. It looks to me a bit like the Spanish M65. Does anybody know if spain exported this shells or what other type of helmet this is?
Interesting helmet. Your idea that it might be a Spanish M65 shell is reasonable, as (I think) the M65 is the only European M1 copy without an applied rim. However, the M65 is something of an 'economy' helmet, not especially well made, and in its original ex-factory state has only one coat of paint which is prone to flake off showing bright metal beneath. They also have a rather distinctive chinstrap loop attachment. Which as far as I can see is not on yours.
It is not impossible that this is an M65, thoroughly reconditioned, but why would the Belgians use a Spanish shell when they already have ample supplies of rather better shells from established suppliers.
Having said all that I have no idea at all about the origin of your shell and will be very pleased to hear from someone with better information.
Can you check the chinstrap bales, here is another M65 to compare with, Spanish M65 OTAN F1 - Military Police Model from your photos there could be a similarity.
Have you identified this specific badge association to the Brabant Police? The rampant lion with a crown over the top is used by many places and can be difficult to get an exact match.
Steve.
Yes, I'm interested in that too. I'm good on glags but shaky on this type of insignia, and so far I am not finding anything to link that badge to any police force in belgium. I appreciate I may be missing something, but it doesn't seem obvious!by Tinhat
Thank you for your reply's.
I have added a picture of the chinband connection ring. I think it looks quit similar to the m65, but i'm not sure. What do you think?
I'm quit sure that the decal in front of the helmet is actually from the Brabant police. I have added a picture of the breast hanger of the Brabant Police. Furthermore, i have seen this helmet twice on Belgian second hand online marketplaces sold as a Brabant police helmet. Unfortunately they just said it was a M1 clone.
Excellent info. I'd been failing to find anything on a 'Brabant Police' and I do wonder if it is because Brabant no longer exists, having been split into three sections in 1995. So this helmet must predate that.
The cut and welding of the chinstrap connector is very similar to the M65, no doubt. I have several of these and have just taken a look at them all. The one point I would make is that the actual wire loop on the M65 is rather larger and more 'square' (without actually being square!) than yours.
This ia a really fascinating helmet.
Hey, Jim...I don't know what it is but you presented it beautifully - thank you. AND (not patronising) you did some research first...'really great to see both those things instead of the usual "wots this and value?" posts. Thank you again.
Ade
Thanks for posting the additional photos. It looks like it is a Spanish M65 shell - Greg, I think Jim's chinstrap bales look bent, if they were flattened they may be closer in shape to the one you show.
Understanding why the Belgian chose to use these is a different story.
Steve.
Thank you all!
I have compard the wire loop with my Belgian M51 helmet. They are the same size. So probably they added the wire loops of the Belgian M51 to this helmet.
I have to options in mind.
1. The Belgian Police bought some spanish M65 helmets and added their own chinstrap and liner.
2. This helmet is actual a version of the Belgian M51. Maybe they produced the M51 with no rim for the police because it's cheaper to make and the police don't need the same protection as the military.
I don't know what is more likely. It's the only helmet in my collection i don't know the type for sure. So, I hope one day I find out.
I'm inclined to go with the idea that either an individual or a whole unit simply removed the rim(s). Or you have one where it just fell off. Both seem unlikely but less so than a special production run of rimless shells. And there can't be many of them either - there are plenty of Euro M1 fans (me for example) and no-one has reported seeing one.
I think I'll try contacting Walter Jacobs, who is preparing a book on Belgian helmets. we'll see.
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