Which phase/model of US M1 did the West German M1A1 clone?

[Gefilde]

Does anyone know which model of M1 steel helmet the West German M1A1 Series steel helmets cloned? Recently I purchased a Danish M48 and compared it with my other M1A1s. Although already knew that the M1A1 was a clone of the US post-war M1 steel helmet, and its size was smaller than the WWII M1, but still wasn't clear which exact phase of the M1 the M1A1 was cloned from.

I then measured the length and width of my Danish M48, and M1A1s(70s VDN and 1986 VDN).
The Danish helmet has an appr. 280 mm in length, and appr. 240 mm in width, which is exactly the description from the introduction of the M1 from Wikipedia.

The M1A1s, however, have different results.
The 70s VDN helmet(with Schuberth I.60 liner) has an appr. 274 mm in length, and 232 mm in width.

The 1985 marked VDN(Schuberth I.81 liner) has a similar length and appr. 298 mm in width. Both helmets are the largest size, measured at the longest & widest part.

I have also noticed that the "Bodentruppenhelm M1A1" is different in shape from the periods; the modified version after 1985 has a narrower side. Was there any reason for this change?

The photo attached includes the comparison of a Danish M48, and West German M1A1s.

[Greg Pickersgill]

That is an interesting queation, but I think you are looking at it the wrong way.

As far as I understand (and there are much better informed Bundeswehr collectors who will be along any minute now) there is virtually no direct connection between the M1A1 and either the M56 (zweitielige stalhhelm) or the US M1 or any other M! euroclones of any era. It is fairly obviously a new design, indigenous to West Germany. I would say that any similarity in size and shape to US M1s is coincidental and as a consequence of a helmet just needing to be that sort of shape. Of course visual identification may have played a part, as in why the French mle51 looks rather like a US M1, simply for easier recognition of friend or foe.

I'll be very interested in what others will say.

[Gefilde]

So the question could be trickier than I thought...

Here is the comparison between the West German M1A1 mod.(1986 VDN) and a South Korean M76(post-2000s); while the helmet side-wall of M1A1 is narrower, the length, width, and height of M1A1 are similar to M76.

(Notice that the M76 is the later version, which has an altered dom shape, but the basic length, width, and height data are the same as the previous version.)

[Rescue190]

All I know, is the US considers them to be clones of the US M1 Pot. East Germany did not create a new design for the clone other than copy the pot design. The suspensions are different across the board for the countries that copy and pasted the M1 pots. The US had a M1 design made by several contractors for the 40+ years of production but they are US M1 helmets. The US liners suspension also changed over the years.
John

[Jack59]

Let's start with a bit of history. April the fourth 1949 NATO is created. 1951, agreements of NATO standardizing of equipment. London & Paris conferences leads to the permission for West Germany to rearm militarily, as they joined NATO in May 1955. The West German M56 (1956) helmet was a temporary copy or clone. They did not like that helmet & already add plans to produced an helmet to their standard. By 1958 the German M1A1 was manufactured, it's design more of a German M35 but to comply to NATO standardisation of equipment it kept the look of a M1 helmet. The West German M1A1 was not a clone but an original helmet of it's era.

[Jack59]

So the question could be trickier than I thought...

Here is the comparison between the West German M1A1 mod.(1986 VDN) and a South Korean M76(post-2000s); while the helmet side-wall of M1A1 is narrower, the length, width, and height of M1A1 are similar to M76.

(Notice that the M76 is the later version, which has an altered dom shape, but the basic length, width, and height data are the same as the previous version.)
Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture

Hello, South Korea M76 being a ballistic helmet, usually seem bigger because of the composite materials used for the shell. South Korea used M1s for many years. USA as been their main allied since 1950. When South Korea manufactured a composite model they addressed also the physical features of Asian people being the size of their head versus Occidental helmets, same thing done by the Japanese's for their M88 composite helmet.

The South Korean M76 model kept the M1 look of their allied, and simular liner & chinstrap for practical reasons. The M76 was widely exported including to Irak who by the way manufactured (copied) a similar model. The general shape of the M1A1 being smaller than the M1s, perhaps the South Korean design team inspired themselves from the M1A1 to create their new shell?

[Sleepwalker]

Hello.

I think you're mixing up a few models.

The European US M1 clone is the modified M1 based on the Belgian pattern. Among other things, he has a flattened parting.

But this model was never called M1. The Belgians called it Casque Mle. 1951. In West Germany it was introduced in 1956 (retired in 1958/59) and called the "Stahlhelm, zweiteilig". Here you have to look at each country separately. Each went their own way.

The one-piece M1A1 is a purely West German new development. Apart from the external shape, it has nothing to do with the US Army's M1. Different steel, different interior and different chin strap.

For the paratroopers use the the M1A1LL.

The "M1A1 modified for ground troops" is a West German modification of the M1A1 as a combat upgrade and bridge to the introduction of composite helmets.

Regards

[Gefilde]

I think there is a misunderstanding that I would need to clarify; it would be better to use the term “derivative product” than “clone”. Yes, the West German M1A1 series helmets come in three sizes, 66, 68, and 71. Obviously, the two smaller sizes were the West German unique design, which is no doubt.
So, I would say I'm more focused on the differences in the shell sizes, especially, the size 71 shell.

After reading Baer's book, I checked the design of the "Zweiteiliger Helm/M56" Stahlhelm and compared it with data I measured from the M1A1s.

The design of the M56 states, that the total length of the helmet is 279 mm(without the seam rim), the width 233 mm(without the seam rim), and the height, most importantly, 167.5 mm height. These data fit well with the data I measured from the M1A1s, and matched with the one that decreased in height version of M1 used by the US forces during the Vietnam War. Sadly I could not find strong sources to prove when the decreased-height version M1 first appeared.

In 1971, South Korean scientist, Doctor Pilsun Han developed the "Bangtan Helmet(lately called "M76" by collectors)" independently. Although he was inspired by the Israeli fiber helmet, the helmet he invented was indeed based on the Vietnam War US M1 helmet(South Korea is a US-allied country, adopting the US equipment, and the South Korean troopers also fought in Vietnam). This would explain why the West German M1A1(Sweden helmets and later post-1980, with I.81 liner system helmets excluded) is the same size as the M76. The pictures attached are a Korean M76 and an Israeli fiber helmet.

Also, I noticed another interesting feature related to the shell manufacturing of M1A1s, but that will be another story.

[Greg Pickersgill]

It seems to me that there is nothing more than convergent evolution - with a portion of conformative similarity for the sake of friend-or-foe recognition - going on here. I've obsessed over tiny details of helmets before now and will again, so I understand the essential drivers, but I really think looking for something in the actual *sizes* of helmets is a step too far.

Mind you, thank you very much, Gefilde, for the piece of information about Han Pil-Sin and the Bangtan helmet. I've been interested in these SK products but never before today heard about Dr Han or the fact they were named 'Bangtan' Or that there is a Wikipedia article - Bangtan Helmet - Wikipedia That's amazing and a real fact for the day!