Additional photos proof markings? "Proved" With Star, under the royal crown it looks like their is some sort of curved initials or am I seeing things?
Additional photos proof markings? "Proved" With Star, under the royal crown it looks like their is some sort of curved initials or am I seeing things?
Good pictures of the sword blade! It looks like it's a generic sword, the type that a young officer with little resources would have bought for himself as he was starting out his professional career. As such, it's really hard to tell whether it belonged to our General Horwood. My guess is that either: (1) this is not the General's sword (because he would likely have had a fancier one, given his exalted rank, titles, position in society, etc.) or (2) this is the General's very first sword from his military career (in which case there are likely other swords out there, more fancy, higher value, etc.). There is no way to know unfortunately, and no way to prove provenance.
With respect to the silicone, yes, a $2.99 bottle of spray silicone would be just fine to protect this sword. If you want to get extra fancy, you can buy Renaissance Wax. But you should really consider getting someone professional to remove the rust for you in some way, or conserve the sword, etc. Some will tell you to leave well enough alone, and in some cases I would agree (for example if you have a Civil War hero's sword that was found in the attic of a barn) but in this case, where you want to mount a nice grouping, and the guy is not a war hero, I'd say conserve it.
I forgot to mention, the "curved initials" you describe are "VR" and they stand for: "Victoria Regina" (Queen Victoria). This means that the sword was a pre 1901 sword (which is when Queen Victoria died). My guess is that this sword is a late Victorian sword.
Oh very interesting. He would have been 30 years or less at that time. You are very knowledgeable about swords! So its reasonable to assume this is a late 1880's British Calvary Sabre? Would it have been likely a parade sword as opposed to a sword for use since its etched?
Apparently he was renowned in the Metropolitan Police department for some time.
Should I use anything to preserve the actual blade? or leave it as is..
The closest thing I'm finding for that proof plug is the Maker Thurkle. But I can't find a detailed pic of it and what I'm seeing it that he used that bursting rays symbol with Proved with what looks like that star in your proof slug. I'll keep looking or maybe someone here has a better pic to reference.Just trying to help out.
Semper Fi
Phil
That looks like a Pattern 1821 Artillery officers sword. As pointed out it's Victorian, we know that form the Royal Cypher and the Queens crown. Dating is a little more difficult as this pattern of sword was still made at least up until the 1980s for the Artillery. There is no actual evidence this was Sir Williams sword, though it could be from junior officer days. He would have had other swords than this one. I notice from his career summary he was a Brigade Major of the 24th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery from 1902. So just on the borderline of change of monarch. The etching might have already been done!
The medal miniatures are interesting and potentially more valuable than the sword. I can see the DSO, 1914-15 star, 1914-18 War medal and Defence medal and a bunch of European decorations on the right hand side. Thanks for showing these items.
Thanks for the info! Yeah I have had minimal luck locating this maker. Didn't even realize that plug had markings in it until i used a q-tip and got the gunk out! Yeah I am in love the the miniatures, such great craftsmanship and fine detailed work. Its incredible.
Found an extremely similar blade with what it looks like matching etching and similar symbol around the plug..
Antique swords for sale in the UK
To preserve the actual blade, I would first remove a century's worth of grime just by using a few dabs of any high-quality gun cleaner solvent and then wipe dry. Then just some silicone spray, let dry, buff, then repeat two or three times. Alternatively, use some Renaissance Wax instead of the silicone spray. The silicone or wax will just offer a barrier against the ravages of time. Just to be extra careful, perhaps consider not storing the blade inside the scabbard as you don't know what's in there, and it can trap moisture. But, that's just being extra cautious (I store most of my swords in the scabbards anyway).
As others have pointed out, it's a no-name sword that would typically be a junior officer's item. The General would have had many other swords, as many as half a dozen! Those would be premium swords, especially toward the end of his career.
The value of this sword is in the provenance and connection to the General. I don't know how you can do this, but you should concentrate on nailing down the provenance, as simply being "sold by the descendants out of their collection" is just not enough to pile on the value.
By far the most valuable item here are the miniature medals, and mostly because of the number of them, as well as the connection to a General and a Metropolitan Police chief. I bet they are worth double the auction price or more, in a retail setting. Probably (easily) $1,000 to $1,500, but again you should nail down the provenance as much as you can, as that's really what will drive value.
Overall such a nice grouping, with tons of upside potential, but weak-ish provenance, in my experience. Nail down the provenance, and you have a winner!
I'm at work and my Guberment computer is blocking that site. The plug is the Key. The design around the plug was used by several makers at different time's. Like the six pointed star used by Wilkinson, Pillin ,Mole, etc. Many used it. But the design of the plug is the key to who made the sword. PROOF, PROVED, symbols/letters within those words is the key.
I'll check that site when I get home.
I am not an expert on these, I just study them. But I know who are.
I will also add that this blade looks plated. If it is a nickel plate it would of had a copper wash for the nickel to adhere to. Gun cleaning solvent are made to dissolve copper and will flake the nickel off once the copper underneath it is eaten away by the solvent. Use cautions with Solvents.
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Semper Fi
Phil
Yes, generally that's true. I was thinking of a Hoppe's No. 9, the synthetic blend, which is quite safe on plating and chrome, etc. You can see an example here:
https://www.amazon.com/Hoppes-Synthe.../dp/B00ABP49GU
Having said that, if wanting to be extra cautious, just use a good oil to remove dirt!
by AZPhil
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